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11-24-2013, 05:54 PM

#8511

Free Bird

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Aug 2008

Posts: 799

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute

a.k.a 20% two years after the amendable date.

Don't forget the reduction in profit sharing.

Don't forget giving the company the ability to operate the company with fewer pilots, thus throwing another log into the fire of stagnation. (ALV+15, TLV increase and shorter bid periods in the summer)

11-24-2013, 05:59 PM

#8512

Carl Spackler

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Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute

No contradiction at all.

It's a complete contradiction. You were right there with the other ALPA insiders slaying the USAPA leadership as having no honor or integrity. Is it any surprise that leadership with no honor or integrity would fire someone...accusing that lawyer of wrongdoing? Can't have it both ways Reroute.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute

They are a terrible union,

That's like saying Peyton Manning is a terrible Congressman. USAPA has never even pretended to be a union. They're an organization started for the sole purpose of delaying implementation of the Nicolau award. At that...they've not been terrible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute

they were led to their demise by the same folks advising the DPA.

They mainly used Seham for the exact same reason we're using him...to decertify ALPA. USAPA further engaged Seham to find some way, any way, to remove or delay the Nicolau award. After they embarked on that strategy, they fired Seham.

Carl

11-24-2013, 06:06 PM

#8513

Carl Spackler

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute

Really! Do tell. Who?

The callers didn't identify themselves by name. They just said they were Delta pilots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute

How's that FBI investigation going?

Nobody knows except the FBI. They never discuss investigations prior to an indictment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute

Are they hot on the trail or do all trails lead to DPA mismanagement of their own website?

You could be right. But the trail could lead directly to the DALPA/ALPA Special Committee.

Carl

11-24-2013, 06:07 PM

#8514

tsquare

No longer cares

Joined APC: Mar 2008

Position: 767er Captain

Posts: 12,109

I am not going to wade thru the last 20 pages of this and that. Besides, the first 800 pages are pretty much the same thing anyway. The question I want answered is this: Do I have to be a member? I will pay dues, but I will not join DPA for one reason, and that is that their dues/fees cannot be guaranteed to be held down, (which is a prime selling point of their campaign) because of the unforeseen services that they will have to pay for at some point in time. I just do not think they have thought this through, and when those gigantic assessments come, I want nothing to do with it. In other words, I am not interested in buying a pig in a poke. YMMV.

11-24-2013, 06:17 PM

#8515

Carl Spackler

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute

You're probably correct, it wasn't all Seham's fault. Although he did help with the self immolation at LCC.

Your talking points need revision. Self immolation? There's a real chance that their SLI might start with APA's list and the two separate LCC lists prior to the Nicolau award. That strategy was invented by Seham. If that happens and they move to APA pay rates, that would be a little tough to describe as a self immolation. We'll know soon enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute

You do rightly point out that none of the carriers you mentioned have been as successful as DALPA.

And no carrier had a bigger collapse and fell further than the DALPA represented pilots of Delta.

Carl

11-24-2013, 06:23 PM

#8516

Carl Spackler

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Reroute

a.k.a 20% two years after the amendable date.

Fully funded by reductions in profit sharing and productivity concessions. Got to stay true to the DALPA/management philosophy of properly funding any gains.

Carl

11-24-2013, 06:29 PM

#8517

Denny Crane

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Joined APC: Sep 2008

Position: Kickin’ Back

Posts: 6,971

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheManager

We can thank UAL for negotiating that contract. .

Thus, the pattern bargaining bar was set and DALPA topped the UAL bar by a fraction in all categories.

This was on of the reasons for the no votes as those voters thought we should have done better than a dollar or so difference in rates.

Go back one more step. How did UAL set that bar? Delta pilots held the 3.B.6 line on the 777 and 737-800 and made big gains which UAL then patterned off of. Pattern bargaining is alive and well no matter what one says.

Denny

11-24-2013, 06:35 PM

#8518

Carl Spackler

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare

I am not going to wade thru the last 20 pages of this and that. Besides, the first 800 pages are pretty much the same thing anyway. The question I want answered is this: Do I have to be a member?

No, you won't have to be a member. But I'd fight like hell to defend you if you ever stubbed your toe on the line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare

I will pay dues, but I will not join DPA for one reason, and that is that their dues/fees cannot be guaranteed to be held down, (which is a prime selling point of their campaign) because of the unforeseen services that they will have to pay for at some point in time.

There won't be any unforeseen services because we'll have the same services as APA, SWAPA, IPA and ALPA. The budgeting process on this is very far along.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare

I just do not think they have thought this through, and when those gigantic assessments come, I want nothing to do with it.

That's very Chicken Little of you tsquare.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsquare

In other words, I am not interested in buying a pig in a poke. YMMV.

No, you're not interested in belonging to a real union. You prefer to belong to a pretend union. The rocking chair screened you perfectly.

Carl

11-24-2013, 06:38 PM

#8519

Carl Spackler

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Denny Crane

No question about that Denny, but I don't think that was his point. His point was the amount by which you exceed the bar during pattern bargaining. UAL exceeded your bar by a large amount in their contract. DALPA only exceeded UAL's bar by a very small fraction in their 2000 contract.

Carl