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Old 11-23-2013, 05:42 AM
  #8431  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
The other write-ins will get their single digit percentage points just like the last presidential election where I believe there were 10 candidates in my state. Romney and Obama got 99% of the votes and the other 8 candidates shared the remaining 1%. Same will happen here. ALPA and DPA combined will get 99% of the votes.

The only way we could end up with no union is if a majority specifically voted to become non-union.

Carl
It would be pretty easy to dilute the hope/change vote.
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:07 AM
  #8432  
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Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
It would be pretty easy to dilute the hope/change vote.
As it would be just as easy to dilute the brandy/cigars/oil paintings vote. But each one of those votes of attempted dilution would take away a vote from the union really desired by the voter.

It's a great idea though Bar. You should encourage your ALPA voter buds to vote for a write in candidate union to dilute DPA support.

Carl
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:15 AM
  #8433  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
This is the exact same nonsense stated by those hoping for our failure when we had 150 cards.

It's so interesting that some folks are so concerned about our card count. You clearly don't believe it, so relax and crack open another beer. Nothing to worry about.

Carl
I didn't say I didn't believe it or that I was 'concerned' about a card count. I only presented the math (which I do not consider 'nonsense') and when I thought about it, it surprised me. It is no small task.

I wasn't drinking either, but my wife does say I worry about stuff too much.
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:40 AM
  #8434  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
No, scope loosening.
If you consider the number of outsourced seats decreasing to be loosening scope, then you're correct.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Decreasing number of RJ's that both management and passengers hated, but increasing jumbo RJ's that management and passengers prefer.
It's not just RJs Carl. But you already know that. The total number of outsourced seats is decreasing. Mainline flying is increasing.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Only on paper. When paper promises won't be met, DALPA ignores it.
That's simply your opinion. Facts are what count Carl.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
See above.
See above.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
That metric won't even be measured for the first time until Jan 2014. Then management doesn't even have to pretend to do something about it until July 2014.
So wait....then it IS tightening scope. It's just not as fast as you want it to be. But that wasn't your claim. Your claim is that it's isn't even being discussed.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
That is correct. Show me one single sentence in ANY ALPA document that discusses outsourcing, or the attempt to insource. Now don't go radio silent again on this johnso, show us ANY such ALPA document.

Carl
Read your contract Carl. Or LOA 13-03. Multiple examples of flying coming back to Delta pilots.
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:50 AM
  #8435  
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Originally Posted by johnso29
If you consider the number of outsourced seats decreasing to be loosening scope, then you're correct.

It's not just RJs Carl. But you already know that. The total number of outsourced seats is decreasing. Mainline flying is increasing.

That's simply your opinion. Facts are what count Carl.

See above.

So wait....then it IS tightening scope. It's just not as fast as you want it to be. But that wasn't your claim. Your claim is that it's isn't even being discussed.

Read your contract Carl. Or LOA 13-03. Multiple examples of flying coming back to Delta pilots.
Most of this is unresponsive nonsense, but worst is your last paragraph. Again, show me one single ALPA document that mentions outsourcing of our jobs, or the attempt to insource them. Any document...any single sentence.

Carl
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:54 AM
  #8436  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Most of this is unresponsive nonsense, but worst is your last paragraph. Again, show me one single ALPA document that mentions outsourcing of our jobs, or the attempt to insource them. Any document...any single sentence.

Carl
It's only nonsense to you because it shows you're incorrect.
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Old 11-23-2013, 06:55 AM
  #8437  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
But ALPA is not adamant about insourcing johnso. ALPA refuses to even discuss outsourcing/insourcing. Since ALPA is the current bargaining agent and (as you say) is accountable, why is ALPA refusing to even discuss what you and I both want?
ALPA refuses to even discuss is exaggeration for effect. There have been so many scope related changes over the decades and even very recently, some bad and some good, that a statement like this is absurd. After reading further down the thread I see where you changed this from 'discussing' the topic to 'publishing' about the topic.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
DPA is discussing it...and discussing it very directly.
Carl
Discussing a plan of action about it?

Last edited by Hillbilly; 11-23-2013 at 06:59 AM. Reason: Added publishing context.
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:02 AM
  #8438  
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Originally Posted by Hillbilly
I didn't say I didn't believe it or that I was 'concerned' about a card count. I only presented the math (which I do not consider 'nonsense') and when I thought about it, it surprised me.
That same math has been with us from 150 cards to our current 5,500 cards.

Originally Posted by Hillbilly
It is no small task.
It sure isn't. It's been tough to get our message out and get these 5,500 cards. Especially since you have to renew them with a hand written signature and mail it with a stamped envelope. I've renewed mine 3 times and getting close to a fourth time.

Carl
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:04 AM
  #8439  
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Originally Posted by johnso29
It's only nonsense to you because it shows you're incorrect.
Again johnso, show me any ALPA document that discusses outsourcing of our jobs or the attempt to insource them. Any sentence within any ALPA document.

Carl
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Old 11-23-2013, 07:10 AM
  #8440  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
That same math has been with us from 150 cards to our current 5,500 cards.



It sure isn't. It's been tough to get our message out and get these 5,500 cards. Especially since you have to renew them with a hand written signature and mail it with a stamped envelope. I've renewed mine 3 times and getting close to a fourth time.

Carl
I recognize that. It's a notable effort that has taken place.
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