Delta Pilots Association
11-21-2013, 07:47 PM
#8402
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: blueJet
Posts: 4,536
11-21-2013, 08:08 PM
#8404
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,967
An opinion from someone who doesn't pay ALAP dues anymore.
Voting to replace ALPA is a big decision that can't be made emotionally. ALPA will try to instill fear of change and the competing union will try to instill anger. Neither is helping by trying to ingest emotion. This must be a rationale decision.
For me, ALPA had many strong points but in the end they presumed too much autonomy from the pilots that pay the dues. Too many times the ALPA leaders made important decisions without seriously taking membership opinions into account or flatly denied membership ratification when the membership made it clear they wanted a ratification vote.
In the end, ALPA's apparent disregard or apathy toward pilot opinion is what did them in.
I expect my representatives to represent the pilots that pay them dues. ALPA simply had too many conflicting interests and ALAP national was completely oblivious to our airlines issues. Not their fault. Its just the way it all developed over the years.
I like that all our reps are elected by the membership and directly accountable to us the membership. They listen because they have to.... No national job to chase... no other pilot group dues to lust after.
Soem folks like ALPA. To each his own.
Its just a vote. What's the harm in a vote?
Voting to replace ALPA is a big decision that can't be made emotionally. ALPA will try to instill fear of change and the competing union will try to instill anger. Neither is helping by trying to ingest emotion. This must be a rationale decision.
For me, ALPA had many strong points but in the end they presumed too much autonomy from the pilots that pay the dues. Too many times the ALPA leaders made important decisions without seriously taking membership opinions into account or flatly denied membership ratification when the membership made it clear they wanted a ratification vote.
In the end, ALPA's apparent disregard or apathy toward pilot opinion is what did them in.
I expect my representatives to represent the pilots that pay them dues. ALPA simply had too many conflicting interests and ALAP national was completely oblivious to our airlines issues. Not their fault. Its just the way it all developed over the years.
I like that all our reps are elected by the membership and directly accountable to us the membership. They listen because they have to.... No national job to chase... no other pilot group dues to lust after.
Soem folks like ALPA. To each his own.
Its just a vote. What's the harm in a vote?
11-22-2013, 10:39 AM
#8405
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
I think that's a little too simplistic in and of itself. That's like saying what's wrong in trying you for a crime you didn't committ? If you are truly innocent, the truth will always come out, even in the face of an aggressive and persuasive prosecution with unlimited resources, right? 
But on some level I think I see where you're going with that line of thinking. If DPA has the card levels they claim, then there will likely be a vote in 2014 or so. Both sides will make their case, etc. Either way we have ALPA now and we will have ALPA or DPA later. I find anyone's motivations suspect if they are a "take their toys and go home" kind of person one way or the other.
No matter how strongly someone advocates for ALPA or DPA, they should be willing to at the very least get involved in whichever we end up having proportionate to their level of brand advocacy now. Weather that's running for office, volunteering for committee work or, most importantly, staying informed, voting at elections, attending meetings when able and directly communicating with one's reps on a fairly regular basis.
Either way, simply saying you pay 1.9% and should get total and complete excellence, instantaneous 75% raises and uninterrupted prosperity without lifting a finger to so much as email one's reps regularly is a pipe dream. Most bargaining agents take 5 to 10 times more for their services. Nothing that ALPA or DPA offers for less than 2% will put us on cruise control with a single vote.
If you're pro ALPA, fine, but if DPA wins you can't be planning on taking your toys and going home and yet still be taken seriously now. If you're pro DPA, great, but we have ALPA now and it might stay that way for a very long time, so get involved, stay informed and work within the process that we have internally, even as you try to change the extrenal mechanisms.
But on some level I think I see where you're going with that line of thinking. If DPA has the card levels they claim, then there will likely be a vote in 2014 or so. Both sides will make their case, etc. Either way we have ALPA now and we will have ALPA or DPA later. I find anyone's motivations suspect if they are a "take their toys and go home" kind of person one way or the other.
No matter how strongly someone advocates for ALPA or DPA, they should be willing to at the very least get involved in whichever we end up having proportionate to their level of brand advocacy now. Weather that's running for office, volunteering for committee work or, most importantly, staying informed, voting at elections, attending meetings when able and directly communicating with one's reps on a fairly regular basis.
Either way, simply saying you pay 1.9% and should get total and complete excellence, instantaneous 75% raises and uninterrupted prosperity without lifting a finger to so much as email one's reps regularly is a pipe dream. Most bargaining agents take 5 to 10 times more for their services. Nothing that ALPA or DPA offers for less than 2% will put us on cruise control with a single vote.
If you're pro ALPA, fine, but if DPA wins you can't be planning on taking your toys and going home and yet still be taken seriously now. If you're pro DPA, great, but we have ALPA now and it might stay that way for a very long time, so get involved, stay informed and work within the process that we have internally, even as you try to change the extrenal mechanisms.
11-22-2013, 01:43 PM
#8408
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I think that's a little too simplistic in and of itself. That's like saying what's wrong in trying you for a crime you didn't committ? If you are truly innocent, the truth will always come out, even in the face of an aggressive and persuasive prosecution with unlimited resources, right?
But on some level I think I see where you're going with that line of thinking. If DPA has the card levels they claim, then there will likely be a vote in 2014 or so. Both sides will make their case, etc. Either way we have ALPA now and we will have ALPA or DPA later. I find anyone's motivations suspect if they are a "take their toys and go home" kind of person one way or the other.
No matter how strongly someone advocates for ALPA or DPA, they should be willing to at the very least get involved in whichever we end up having proportionate to their level of brand advocacy now. Weather that's running for office, volunteering for committee work or, most importantly, staying informed, voting at elections, attending meetings when able and directly communicating with one's reps on a fairly regular basis.
Either way, simply saying you pay 1.9% and should get total and complete excellence, instantaneous 75% raises and uninterrupted prosperity without lifting a finger to so much as email one's reps regularly is a pipe dream. Most bargaining agents take 5 to 10 times more for their services. Nothing that ALPA or DPA offers for less than 2% will put us on cruise control with a single vote.
If you're pro ALPA, fine, but if DPA wins you can't be planning on taking your toys and going home and yet still be taken seriously now. If you're pro DPA, great, but we have ALPA now and it might stay that way for a very long time, so get involved, stay informed and work within the process that we have internally, even as you try to change the extrenal mechanisms.
But on some level I think I see where you're going with that line of thinking. If DPA has the card levels they claim, then there will likely be a vote in 2014 or so. Both sides will make their case, etc. Either way we have ALPA now and we will have ALPA or DPA later. I find anyone's motivations suspect if they are a "take their toys and go home" kind of person one way or the other.
No matter how strongly someone advocates for ALPA or DPA, they should be willing to at the very least get involved in whichever we end up having proportionate to their level of brand advocacy now. Weather that's running for office, volunteering for committee work or, most importantly, staying informed, voting at elections, attending meetings when able and directly communicating with one's reps on a fairly regular basis.
Either way, simply saying you pay 1.9% and should get total and complete excellence, instantaneous 75% raises and uninterrupted prosperity without lifting a finger to so much as email one's reps regularly is a pipe dream. Most bargaining agents take 5 to 10 times more for their services. Nothing that ALPA or DPA offers for less than 2% will put us on cruise control with a single vote.
If you're pro ALPA, fine, but if DPA wins you can't be planning on taking your toys and going home and yet still be taken seriously now. If you're pro DPA, great, but we have ALPA now and it might stay that way for a very long time, so get involved, stay informed and work within the process that we have internally, even as you try to change the extrenal mechanisms.
Carl
11-22-2013, 01:51 PM
#8409
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
11-22-2013, 04:27 PM
#8410
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
I'm curious about this. What exactly is it that causes you to have "total disdain" for DPA? As you guys are fond of pointing out, they don't have a track record (unlike ALPA)... so it can't be that you don't like the way they've been representing the pilots. And if your disdain is because they want to replace ALPA, then one has to wonder if your real loyalty is to ALPA or to the Delta pilots.
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