Purple Drank

So it's your position that we should never say "no," that we need to say "yes" to everything the company offers.

Sounds like a sound negotiating strategy.

Rogue24

No, you need to look beyond the simplistic soundbite. We need to think outside the box, and find ways to get returns for our pilots in a relatively timely manner if possible. Big difference and one that employs strategic mindset and action.

Denny Crane

Why would I expect them to exceed our rates? Because if the bar we set was so abysmally low, I would of thought that other unions, especially independent ones, would never have settled for less. Heck, they went years without achieving restoration. Why not continue that battle? If pattern bargaining is not alive and well, they should have been able to far exceed what we have and yet they cannot even equal it.

I believe I'm a reasonable man. On the one hand I want restoration just as much as you and any one of us does and on the other is the NMB. Where I differ from you (I think) is I believe the NMB (via the RLA) is the single biggest hurdle to reaching that goal in a reasonable amount of time. IMO, if others cannot exceed our hourly wage, it makes it even more difficult for us to achieve significant gains because of the route we have to take thru the NMB. Do you believe the NMB would allow us, with the highest hourly wage of the legacies, to strike if we do not get a 32 percent hike in pay on top of that?

Our company is doing phenomenally well and I do believe significant gains are to be had but they have been made much more difficult to achieve by the lack of gains on top of ours by unions at other passenger carriers.

Denny

DAL 88 Driver

Except I didn't state that.

DAL 88 Driver

Love the qualifiers. "relatively timely manner" "if possible"

The power of positive thinking. Not.

DAL 88 Driver

Look. An unreasonable cut requires what would normally be considered an unreasonable gain in order to restore. The NMB should be smart enough to know that the cuts we took were not reasonable and that this is therefore not a "normal" situation. But if our bargaining agent is acting like it IS a normal situation, then what incentive do they (or management) have to reevaluate?

Certainly, it's more difficult to achieve restoration when nobody else is achieving it. But IMO we've made it very difficult on ourselves by acting like we don't expect restoration. We're in a position of leadership among formerly bankrupt carriers. At this point in time, we have the best opportunity to make the case for restoration. And our bargaining agent is not doing it. That hurts us, and it hurts everybody else too. I realize that's difficult to hear, but I don't see why it's so difficult to comprehend.

Oh, and by the way, a 32.5% cut requires a 48% increase to restore. I'd probably vote for 32.5%, even spread out over 2 or 3 years. See, I can be reasonable too!

Carl Spackler

The entire statement was discussing all the good things the new pilot contract would bring to Delta Air Lines. Ed and Richard went on to say that the new pilot contract would be cost neutral, and in fact, the additional cost savings would allow Delta to FUND other employee initiatives within OTHER employee groups at Delta.

When these comments came to light, our DTW LEC put them out in a letter to us along with the MEC administration's extreme displeasure at management for making public statements like that. What really made O'Malley mad is that Richard and Ed made those comments before the vote was taken.

So that's the context tsquare. Still want to keep changing the subject and making a fool of yourself?

Carl

Denny Crane

The current situation reminds me a lot of the post '96/pre 2001 contract time frame. It will be interesting to see what happens...

Denny

Dorfman

Will there be an announcement for a vote by 1 Jan, for some on APC the self imposed deadline? If not when? I feel if there is not a vote soon then this becomes anever ending card drive by DPA with no true end game in site other than to be a thorn in the side of DALPA.

I do believe that DPA has been good for shedding light into the dark corners of DALPA, but at some point there either has to be a vote or they need to end the campaign.

DAL 88 Driver

It wouldn't be easy. But it's infinitely harder if we too view it as a reset and don't set restoration as our objective.

If one is going to say that the NMB is an insurmountable obstacle, then one is by definition surrendering on restoration, right?

Why would you want to hear that? I mean, if you don't believe it's possible, then does hearing it somehow make you feel better?

And even if DALPA stated that our goal is restoration, if they don't change what they're doing then the performance we've seen using that strategy hasn't produced good enough results to make the math work for restoration within the time frame that most if not all current Delta pilots have left in our careers.


Yes, that will be interesting. But I don't hold out much hope if we have the same people, doing the same things, espousing the same philosophy as the ones we've had running DALPA for the past 8 years.

I believe that DALPA has demonstrated an extreme resistance to change. The current politicos have such a stranglehold on the way this association is run (as evidence, just look at the latest MEC Chairman recall fiasco) that I don't think DALPA can be fixed. I think it's time to try something else. Right now, DPA is the only alternative being presented. Rather than just give up and surrender (stay with DALPA), I'm willing to try (DPA).