Delta Pilots Association
11-07-2013, 02:13 PM
#8162
On Reserve
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 14
I certainly have my reservations about DPA but have you guys read this letter? It has some great ideas.
One Pilot's Opinion
A Perfect World
In a perfect and fair world, management would announce tomorrow that they are snapping up our pay to the Delta pilot pay rates from 2004. The billions the Delta pilots took in concessions made us the largest contributor by far to the success and record profits Delta enjoys today.
Sadly our world is neither perfect nor fair. We must negotiate for our share of the success we created and our task is all uphill given the fact that the Railway Labor Act places almost all the cards in management's hands.
We have few opportunities and we must make the most of each and every one. We recently had an opportunity with the Pacific LOA. What did you receive as a line pilot in that deal?
FAR 117 Negotiations
Some of you may not be aware, but we are in negotiations for amending the PWA for FAR 117 and they are extensive. We have an incredible opportunity here to make gains and we cannot let another negotiation pass without substantial recovery of concessions from Chapter 11 that are no longer necessary.
Before I get into what I believe is our best strategy, let's recap what was said by other airline management about the pending FAR 117.
Quotes from the Dallas Morning News
"Fort Worth-based American Airlines says the rule would require it to hire 2,325 more pilots and add annual costs of $514 million."
"The Air Transport Association, which represents all passenger carriers, has said the rule would cost $19.6 billion over 10 years, more than 15 times what the FAA estimated."
Not One Additional Pilot
Given the comments from the ATA, you would think Delta would have added additional reserves to every category in every base. Consider that adding just 10% reserves in a specific category where there are currently 40 pilots on reserve would be just 4 pilots to cover new regulations that have hard and strict limits. Just imagine the additional manning these new regulations will require from a heavy snowstorm or the occasional Atlanta line of thunderstorms.
And how many additional pilots have we added in each category for the certain impact of FAR 117? None.
How can American Airlines need 2,325 additional pilots and we would add zero? And they have thousands fewer pilots.
DALPA To The Rescue
It is my opinion management has not added any additional pilots because they know they can get permanent concessions from our union and pay nothing in return. Zero jobs. Zero additional pay.
A New Paradigm / No Permanent Concessions Ever During Record Profits
When we look back at the TA, why did we make permanent concessions during record profits? Cutting profit sharing 33%, 99 hours on reserve, changing the summer calendar, adding 2 hours to the ALV, etc. Wasn't giving away seventy 76 seat jets enough? Who makes concessions during record profits? How painful will our profit sharing be in future years knowing we deserved 33% more?
We need to change the way we do business and the right answer is TEMPORARY RELIEF while management hires the additional pilots necessary to cover the new rules under FAR 117. We have given enough permanent concessions to last two lifetimes.
The Minimum we Will Accept
In exchange for our temporary relief, we need a minimum of a 10% pay increase. No longer are we willing to be left with big promises that do not materialize and a handful of magic beans.
MEMRAT
This negotiation is going to have a huge impact on our careers and the line pilots need to see the deal and vote on it. We need to send a message to management and DALPA that we have suffered enough and it is time to share in the success we created.
Management sells slivers of their stock for millions. What concessions did they take and how much have they been rewarded?
Our management does a great job and we want them to be well compensated. What is unacceptable is for them to take millions and tell us to live on far less than the Delta pilots made over a decade ago. And let's not even think about adding in inflation over that period because it would be too painful.
We don't want to break the bank or kill the golden goose, we just want to be fairly compensated for our productivity, professionalism and the life changing concessions we have all suffered.
Temporary Pain and Inevitable Threats
If we cannot achieve a 10% pay increase and no permanent concessions, in my opinion, we all need to vote NO. We all know there will be threats. Hundreds more 30 hour layovers. Rescheduled every trip.
If we all fly trips with 30 hour layovers and low credit, the trips will cause us to work many more days. Who will fly the white slips and green slips that keep this airline running? We are manned way to tightly now to be this unproductive. These threats only exist to force us into another concessionary deal and delay restoration.
Perhaps if we vote NO, management will actually follow through on their threats, but you have to ask yourself what is worse? Can your career handle more concessions? Do you want to wait 2 more years to increase our pay?
Our position is strong. Given American's forecast of needing thousands of additional pilots, can management afford to reject our offer of temporary relief? Is sitting us around and rescheduling us a viable option? Is that any way to run a multi-billion dollar airline?
What Can You Do As A Line Pilot?
Take a moment to call and write your reps. Tell them we must MEMRAT this LOA. Tell them to only grant temporary relief, NOT PERMANENT CONCESSIONS.
Are Our Bankruptcy Concessions Still Necessary?
Our trip through bankruptcy gave management the power to attain concessions that would never be possible in normal Section 6 negotiations. Concessions were made in virtually every section of the contract. Given Delta's quarter after quarter of record profits, stock buyback, dividends, skyrocketing stock price, expanding profit margins, massive debt reduction, etc., is there anyone in the world that can say with a straight face that these draconian concessions are still needed?
We should not have to wait one more day for elimination of these concessions. They were forced upon us outside Section 6 and we should not be forced to wait until 2015. Why is it that DALPA is so weak they cannot or will not make the case for restoration now?
Conclusion
The overall goal for all of us is to work together with management and our fellow Delta employees to lead the industry and crush the competition. We don't hate management. This is business. This is negotiations. I'm sure Boeing and Airbus are both dripping with sweat after negotiating with our management. This is no different except for the fact that management's compensation is an SR 71 and ours is a Cessna 152 flying into a 50 knot headwind.
Let's band together and take a stand for our fair share.
One Pilot's Opinion
A Perfect World
In a perfect and fair world, management would announce tomorrow that they are snapping up our pay to the Delta pilot pay rates from 2004. The billions the Delta pilots took in concessions made us the largest contributor by far to the success and record profits Delta enjoys today.
Sadly our world is neither perfect nor fair. We must negotiate for our share of the success we created and our task is all uphill given the fact that the Railway Labor Act places almost all the cards in management's hands.
We have few opportunities and we must make the most of each and every one. We recently had an opportunity with the Pacific LOA. What did you receive as a line pilot in that deal?
FAR 117 Negotiations
Some of you may not be aware, but we are in negotiations for amending the PWA for FAR 117 and they are extensive. We have an incredible opportunity here to make gains and we cannot let another negotiation pass without substantial recovery of concessions from Chapter 11 that are no longer necessary.
Before I get into what I believe is our best strategy, let's recap what was said by other airline management about the pending FAR 117.
Quotes from the Dallas Morning News
"Fort Worth-based American Airlines says the rule would require it to hire 2,325 more pilots and add annual costs of $514 million."
"The Air Transport Association, which represents all passenger carriers, has said the rule would cost $19.6 billion over 10 years, more than 15 times what the FAA estimated."
Not One Additional Pilot
Given the comments from the ATA, you would think Delta would have added additional reserves to every category in every base. Consider that adding just 10% reserves in a specific category where there are currently 40 pilots on reserve would be just 4 pilots to cover new regulations that have hard and strict limits. Just imagine the additional manning these new regulations will require from a heavy snowstorm or the occasional Atlanta line of thunderstorms.
And how many additional pilots have we added in each category for the certain impact of FAR 117? None.
How can American Airlines need 2,325 additional pilots and we would add zero? And they have thousands fewer pilots.
DALPA To The Rescue
It is my opinion management has not added any additional pilots because they know they can get permanent concessions from our union and pay nothing in return. Zero jobs. Zero additional pay.
A New Paradigm / No Permanent Concessions Ever During Record Profits
When we look back at the TA, why did we make permanent concessions during record profits? Cutting profit sharing 33%, 99 hours on reserve, changing the summer calendar, adding 2 hours to the ALV, etc. Wasn't giving away seventy 76 seat jets enough? Who makes concessions during record profits? How painful will our profit sharing be in future years knowing we deserved 33% more?
We need to change the way we do business and the right answer is TEMPORARY RELIEF while management hires the additional pilots necessary to cover the new rules under FAR 117. We have given enough permanent concessions to last two lifetimes.
The Minimum we Will Accept
In exchange for our temporary relief, we need a minimum of a 10% pay increase. No longer are we willing to be left with big promises that do not materialize and a handful of magic beans.
MEMRAT
This negotiation is going to have a huge impact on our careers and the line pilots need to see the deal and vote on it. We need to send a message to management and DALPA that we have suffered enough and it is time to share in the success we created.
Management sells slivers of their stock for millions. What concessions did they take and how much have they been rewarded?
Our management does a great job and we want them to be well compensated. What is unacceptable is for them to take millions and tell us to live on far less than the Delta pilots made over a decade ago. And let's not even think about adding in inflation over that period because it would be too painful.
We don't want to break the bank or kill the golden goose, we just want to be fairly compensated for our productivity, professionalism and the life changing concessions we have all suffered.
Temporary Pain and Inevitable Threats
If we cannot achieve a 10% pay increase and no permanent concessions, in my opinion, we all need to vote NO. We all know there will be threats. Hundreds more 30 hour layovers. Rescheduled every trip.
If we all fly trips with 30 hour layovers and low credit, the trips will cause us to work many more days. Who will fly the white slips and green slips that keep this airline running? We are manned way to tightly now to be this unproductive. These threats only exist to force us into another concessionary deal and delay restoration.
Perhaps if we vote NO, management will actually follow through on their threats, but you have to ask yourself what is worse? Can your career handle more concessions? Do you want to wait 2 more years to increase our pay?
Our position is strong. Given American's forecast of needing thousands of additional pilots, can management afford to reject our offer of temporary relief? Is sitting us around and rescheduling us a viable option? Is that any way to run a multi-billion dollar airline?
What Can You Do As A Line Pilot?
Take a moment to call and write your reps. Tell them we must MEMRAT this LOA. Tell them to only grant temporary relief, NOT PERMANENT CONCESSIONS.
Are Our Bankruptcy Concessions Still Necessary?
Our trip through bankruptcy gave management the power to attain concessions that would never be possible in normal Section 6 negotiations. Concessions were made in virtually every section of the contract. Given Delta's quarter after quarter of record profits, stock buyback, dividends, skyrocketing stock price, expanding profit margins, massive debt reduction, etc., is there anyone in the world that can say with a straight face that these draconian concessions are still needed?
We should not have to wait one more day for elimination of these concessions. They were forced upon us outside Section 6 and we should not be forced to wait until 2015. Why is it that DALPA is so weak they cannot or will not make the case for restoration now?
Conclusion
The overall goal for all of us is to work together with management and our fellow Delta employees to lead the industry and crush the competition. We don't hate management. This is business. This is negotiations. I'm sure Boeing and Airbus are both dripping with sweat after negotiating with our management. This is no different except for the fact that management's compensation is an SR 71 and ours is a Cessna 152 flying into a 50 knot headwind.
Let's band together and take a stand for our fair share.
Last edited by corndog6; 11-07-2013 at 02:16 PM. Reason: shorten post
11-07-2013, 04:12 PM
#8165
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 777 Sim Instructor
Posts: 745
What hilarious spin. The letter from you Moak proxies was ONLY character assassination and self-serving opinion. Ryan's letter was very accurate and comports with other LEC members who've watched the Moak proxies purposely trying to bring down the MEC for their own personal gain.
That's all part of the same coordinated attack by you Moak proxies.
More heavy spin designed to deceive and keep Delta pilots in the dark. That was your hallmark when you were in the MEC administration, and you haven't changed a bit. The Moak proxy letter was all political spin, while Ryan's letter dealt with either fact, or his personal recollection.
But here's where your shameless spin is so damaging to Delta pilots: Yes he said the MEC administration wasn't performing at a high level. He said it. But you use the phrase "he admitted" ...which is an obvious attempt at making it look like Ryan was trying to hide something and finally had to "admit it". Worse is your complete omission as to WHY the MEC wasn't performing at a high level. That was because you and the dinosaur Moak proxies were purposely trying to destroy the MEC so you could take it back from the LEC members who elected it.
You continue to damage your credibility with such deceptive spin...which is why I hope you keep it up. People need to see you for who you really are and understand why you are so bad for this pilot group.
Carl
That's all part of the same coordinated attack by you Moak proxies.
More heavy spin designed to deceive and keep Delta pilots in the dark. That was your hallmark when you were in the MEC administration, and you haven't changed a bit. The Moak proxy letter was all political spin, while Ryan's letter dealt with either fact, or his personal recollection.
But here's where your shameless spin is so damaging to Delta pilots: Yes he said the MEC administration wasn't performing at a high level. He said it. But you use the phrase "he admitted" ...which is an obvious attempt at making it look like Ryan was trying to hide something and finally had to "admit it". Worse is your complete omission as to WHY the MEC wasn't performing at a high level. That was because you and the dinosaur Moak proxies were purposely trying to destroy the MEC so you could take it back from the LEC members who elected it.
You continue to damage your credibility with such deceptive spin...which is why I hope you keep it up. People need to see you for who you really are and understand why you are so bad for this pilot group.
Carl
11-07-2013, 04:16 PM
#8166
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,049
11-07-2013, 05:29 PM
#8169
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: C-17A EP, MD-88FO
Posts: 27
IF thousands of Delta pilots didnt feel that DALPA doesn't aggressively fight for DELTA pilots, didn't feel that the were sold a bill of goods with an over the top sales push - when a contract should sell itself, and has too many entrenched MEC members that seem to care more about their irreplacable selves- than Delta pilots....
the DPA most likely would not exist..
Having said that too many people I fly with agree with my notion that DALPA and DAL should be on OPPOSITE sides of the negotioating table- not on the same side arm in arm patting each other on the back
shiz
the DPA most likely would not exist..
Having said that too many people I fly with agree with my notion that DALPA and DAL should be on OPPOSITE sides of the negotioating table- not on the same side arm in arm patting each other on the back
shiz
11-07-2013, 05:59 PM
#8170
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl
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