Delta Pilots Association
11-05-2013, 02:42 PM
#8011
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
I whole heartily believe that they are pushing fence sitters away.
They have already lost 5000 or so.
The key to winning is, as bar always harps on: unity.
They are doing just the opposite by maligning those that have sent in cards. Pick anything, just one thing, an eventual restoration plan, crew rest facilities, specific mid term contract improvements and build unity by rallying everyone to the cause.
Be inclusive, not a hierarchy of top down governance.
Adopt a collaborative but firm approach toward our needs with management all the while understanding that it is just business, not personal.
No need for pitch forks and torches. Just intelligent leveraging of opportunities.
Dalpa appears to be doing just the opposite!?!?!?
They have already lost 5000 or so.
The key to winning is, as bar always harps on: unity.
They are doing just the opposite by maligning those that have sent in cards. Pick anything, just one thing, an eventual restoration plan, crew rest facilities, specific mid term contract improvements and build unity by rallying everyone to the cause.
Be inclusive, not a hierarchy of top down governance.
Adopt a collaborative but firm approach toward our needs with management all the while understanding that it is just business, not personal.
No need for pitch forks and torches. Just intelligent leveraging of opportunities.
Dalpa appears to be doing just the opposite!?!?!?
Oh, that's right, it is part of the "logical plan" to wait until you can be assured of winning.
Interesting that you invoke the word "unity"....
And I guess the fact that guys like Carl are on here spewing his propaganda has no effect on fence sitters? Or is HIS propaganda somehow believable?
11-05-2013, 03:17 PM
#8012
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: 737n/FO
Posts: 667
I'm not obsessed with it like you are. It is what it is. Arguing the reason and logic for the difference between us and SWA is pointless with you. It is fascinating that you refuse to asknowledge that they didn't go thru BK, and that they have only had 3 to maybe 4% pay increases for years and years, yet you seem to want to get it all back in one fell swoop. You want to swing for the fence. I get that. The only thing with that is that you don't want to accept the risk in that tactic. If your boys win, I'll accept that except that I will be demanding that you produce. From day one. I won't want to wait, and will not accept waiting for you to do so because you said that your plan is better. Put up or shut up.
I didn't want to swing for the fences BUT what we got JUST for giving up the profit sharing (15% down to 10%) is illustrated perfectly this year how little we got back. It wasn't 4833 per se but what we gave up for what we got. 4833 BARELY matches inflation (if you ignore the CPI which is not a good measure of inflation). How's everyone doing on their medical bills/premiums, how about electricity with coal being politically incorrect, the energy boom in the US holding down gas prices temporarlily - need I go on. I didn't need restoration - but we'll soon know who much we gave up with JUST the 5% profit sharing give back.
11-05-2013, 03:57 PM
#8014
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 2,431
T,
I didn't want to swing for the fences BUT what we got JUST for giving up the profit sharing (15% down to 10%) is illustrated perfectly this year how little we got back. It wasn't 4833 per se but what we gave up for what we got. 4833 BARELY matches inflation (if you ignore the CPI which is not a good measure of inflation). How's everyone doing on their medical bills/premiums, how about electricity with coal being politically incorrect, the energy boom in the US holding down gas prices temporarlily - need I go on. I didn't need restoration - but we'll soon know who much we gave up with JUST the 5% profit sharing give back.
I didn't want to swing for the fences BUT what we got JUST for giving up the profit sharing (15% down to 10%) is illustrated perfectly this year how little we got back. It wasn't 4833 per se but what we gave up for what we got. 4833 BARELY matches inflation (if you ignore the CPI which is not a good measure of inflation). How's everyone doing on their medical bills/premiums, how about electricity with coal being politically incorrect, the energy boom in the US holding down gas prices temporarlily - need I go on. I didn't need restoration - but we'll soon know who much we gave up with JUST the 5% profit sharing give back.
Also the company is stating that we have already got more absolute $$ allocated into our profit sharing so far this year than we did for all of last year--even with the lower 10% figure. In fact we may even tap into the 20% realm for profits above $2.5 billion (though I get this feeling that DAL will "just" miss it).
11-05-2013, 03:59 PM
#8015
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
11-05-2013, 04:30 PM
#8016
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2013
Position: Scarebus B
Posts: 41
Wow! This is why the DPA is basically on the eve of having the cards to force a vote.
If you represent DALPA, which I am sure you do considering the tone of your statement and that you have 20 or so posts making you an APC rookie, you are pushing the fence sitters in to the DPA.
You in one post:
Offended fellow pilots with your "greater minds than yours or more knowledgeable" ones comment." Nice work. Way to make people see and want to join your cause.
Then you highlighted the one flaw of DALPA that is paramount in changing to insure we keep them as a bargaining agent. Bottom up representation and organization.
You basically stated that the poster and 5000 + pilots are lacking the loyalty you desire for DALPA and demanded that you are "either for or against ALPA." Really intelligent.
Finally, your most outrageous comment comes near the end. It is laughable really. "Fall in soldier and quit questioning everything," and, "it's OK to question a little but at some point you have to trust those who you have elected to do their best."
There we have you again highlighting what has DALPA so perilously close to the precipice of extinction. The top down governing of the association by the committee chairmen and the old guard and the pressure politics they employee to cling to their power.
From your 20 odd posts, it is obvious you are not a line pilot. I'm guessing on two different angles.
1. Management/ or management consulting. Trying to stir the $h1t to create conflict and weaken ALPA by having them expend resources and man hours to thwart the DPA. Keeping the opposition unstable.
2. DALPA penguin or seagull that is too tone deaf and near sighted to know that the rhetoric you are spewing is exactly what is giving the DPA strength. Moak knows that this threat is urgent. ALPA loses DAL, ALPA then becomes irrelevant.
I believe ALPA is the best option for the pilots for political lobbying as the primary reason. Their attitude towards bottom up governance and the line pilot in general is its largest flaw. Just look at how the resolutions on FPL were handled for starters.
Keep it up. Keep insulting the members of DALPA as well as demanding military obedience. That wins hearts and minds.
If you represent DALPA, which I am sure you do considering the tone of your statement and that you have 20 or so posts making you an APC rookie, you are pushing the fence sitters in to the DPA.
You in one post:
Offended fellow pilots with your "greater minds than yours or more knowledgeable" ones comment." Nice work. Way to make people see and want to join your cause.
Then you highlighted the one flaw of DALPA that is paramount in changing to insure we keep them as a bargaining agent. Bottom up representation and organization.
You basically stated that the poster and 5000 + pilots are lacking the loyalty you desire for DALPA and demanded that you are "either for or against ALPA." Really intelligent.
Finally, your most outrageous comment comes near the end. It is laughable really. "Fall in soldier and quit questioning everything," and, "it's OK to question a little but at some point you have to trust those who you have elected to do their best."
There we have you again highlighting what has DALPA so perilously close to the precipice of extinction. The top down governing of the association by the committee chairmen and the old guard and the pressure politics they employee to cling to their power.
From your 20 odd posts, it is obvious you are not a line pilot. I'm guessing on two different angles.
1. Management/ or management consulting. Trying to stir the $h1t to create conflict and weaken ALPA by having them expend resources and man hours to thwart the DPA. Keeping the opposition unstable.
2. DALPA penguin or seagull that is too tone deaf and near sighted to know that the rhetoric you are spewing is exactly what is giving the DPA strength. Moak knows that this threat is urgent. ALPA loses DAL, ALPA then becomes irrelevant.
I believe ALPA is the best option for the pilots for political lobbying as the primary reason. Their attitude towards bottom up governance and the line pilot in general is its largest flaw. Just look at how the resolutions on FPL were handled for starters.
Keep it up. Keep insulting the members of DALPA as well as demanding military obedience. That wins hearts and minds.
I am very committed to the organization that has gotten us to where we are at today....leaps and bounds above every passenger flying airline in the USA. It hasn't come all in one fell swoop but we are carrying the torch. Give it some more time. Will we get to C2K adjusted for inflation? That's probably not reasonable and I don't see anyway that happens but we can eek out a very livable wage and enjoy working for the best airline in the world. Not many pilots can say that.
11-05-2013, 06:02 PM
#8017
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Listen, I said maybe I got a little carried away in an earlier post. I just don't want to lose what we have and turn the reigns over to those knuckleheads pushing for an alter ego representation.
I am very committed to the organization that has gotten us to where we are at today....leaps and bounds above every passenger flying airline in the USA. It hasn't come all in one fell swoop but we are carrying the torch. Give it some more time. Will we get to C2K adjusted for inflation? That's probably not reasonable and I don't see anyway that happens but we can eek out a very livable wage and enjoy working for the best airline in the world. Not many pilots can say that.
I am very committed to the organization that has gotten us to where we are at today....leaps and bounds above every passenger flying airline in the USA. It hasn't come all in one fell swoop but we are carrying the torch. Give it some more time. Will we get to C2K adjusted for inflation? That's probably not reasonable and I don't see anyway that happens but we can eek out a very livable wage and enjoy working for the best airline in the world. Not many pilots can say that.
The company is making record profits.
Our concession are building roof top lounges, funding chef cook offs, building floats for pride parades, dividends to share holders, large pay increases for management as well as bonuses.
The concessions on the Delta side were over a billion a year alone.
And, how did you like that increase in medical benefits in light of all of the above?
Still think it is not reasonable?
Then why?
Last edited by TheManager; 11-05-2013 at 06:25 PM.
11-05-2013, 06:07 PM
#8018
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Why is it not reasonable?
The company is making record profits.
Our concession is building roof top lounges, funding chef cook offs, building floats for pride parades, dividends to share holders, large pay increases for management as well as bonuses.
The concessions on the Delta side were over a billion a year alone.
And, how did you like that increase in medical benefits in light of all of the above?
Still think it is not reasonable?
Then why?
The company is making record profits.
Our concession is building roof top lounges, funding chef cook offs, building floats for pride parades, dividends to share holders, large pay increases for management as well as bonuses.
The concessions on the Delta side were over a billion a year alone.
And, how did you like that increase in medical benefits in light of all of the above?
Still think it is not reasonable?
Then why?
No changey, no hopey.
BTW, yes, I am standing at the position of attention.
11-05-2013, 06:13 PM
#8019
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Then call for the vote.
Oh, that's right, it is part of the "logical plan" to wait until you can be assured of winning.
Interesting that you invoke the word "unity"....
And I guess the fact that guys like Carl are on here spewing his propaganda has no effect on fence sitters? Or is HIS propaganda somehow believable?
Oh, that's right, it is part of the "logical plan" to wait until you can be assured of winning.
Interesting that you invoke the word "unity"....
And I guess the fact that guys like Carl are on here spewing his propaganda has no effect on fence sitters? Or is HIS propaganda somehow believable?
After peeling the layers back on the latest MEC meeting and the politics behind the recall, I had serious questions.
The latest letter produced by Harwood, Wycoff, O,Malley, & Timmerman, and the blatant push to seize power is distasteful. Meaningful changes that could unify the pilots and transform DALPA into an inclusive bottom up org will not happen .
I find myself debating climbing the fence.
Last edited by TheManager; 11-05-2013 at 06:24 PM.
11-05-2013, 06:15 PM
#8020
Flies With The Hat On
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: Right of the Left Seat
Posts: 1,339
DPA is critically outspoken against regional outsourcing.
This is exciting!
Delta Pilots Association - Videos - DPA LAUNCH VIDEO
This is exciting!
Delta Pilots Association - Videos - DPA LAUNCH VIDEO
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