Originally Posted by finis72

You cite outsourcing and I agree that it is the major problem we face, now tell me who will have the best chance to influence the battlefield going forward ? A national union with political clout...

Originally Posted by finis72

or an independent union that only represents 11000 or so pilots.

Originally Posted by CVG767A

I hope you're right. This needs to end before openers are exchanged.

I suspect, however, that DPA will continue to beat their drum. Their power and influence is maximized by inferring that they are broadly supported by our pilot group. Whether they have that support or not will take a vote. It's time for DPA to put up or shut up.

Originally Posted by Herkflyr

I can promise there ain't no one shedding tears for younger-than-50 777 captains who--boo hoo--couldn't take a lump sum and retire early. Many F/Os these days are approaching 50 and can't conceive of being a 50-year-old 777 F/O, much less 777 captain.

I suppose the 49-year-old (in 2005) 777 captain (who was probably a 35-year-old narrowbody captain and 40-year old 767 captain) is just going to have to find a way to deal with the purgatory that is DAL, as he spends 16+ years in the left seat of the highest paying aircraft on the property.

I might pick a different example for the legitimacy of DPA support than that one. Considering we had thousands of guys furloughed for up to 5+ years, there are plenty of worthy ones out there.

Originally Posted by Rather B Fishin

EXCEPT it's NOT ALPA. It's a fellow co-worker and his post is spot on!

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

I agree. All the divisiveness created by Moak proxies successfully removing the MEC chairman by one vote on the MEC was very bad for our group. The divisiveness that will follow from another Moak proxy being elected as MEC chairman will be continually bad for our group.

Carl

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

When we're reasonably certain we can win, and not one day sooner. All your tough-guy taunts of "put up or shut up" will not change our logic-based strategy.

Carl

Originally Posted by finis72

FTB, I make business decisions on facts, not emotions.

Originally Posted by finis72

I do agree that ALPA withheld information when those of us that did have a choice had to decide.

Originally Posted by finis72

They, ALPA ,made mistakes...

Originally Posted by finis72

Anti ALPA for past sins is not a strategy to move forward

Originally Posted by finis72

...but I'll take a proven commodity over a pie in the sky, distort the truth group any day.

Originally Posted by tsquare

How can they do that when the dee pee ay is actively recruiting and spouting lies and innuendo on a daily basis?

Originally Posted by TheManager

So gearjerk, the answer to your questions lies in economics. Every business entity, and particularly those that are heavily energy dependent, have raised the cost of their product to account for those increases. Cruise lines, plumbers, rail roads, shippers, they all do it successfully. Airlines have done so as well.

Therefore, I don't share your view that we should except lower wages because crude oil costs more especially when the goods and services we buy cost more as the higher energy costs are priced into their products.

Despite the fact that the economy hasn't recovered in your view, the airlines are doing exceedingly well. Thank the unbundling of fees. You can also thank bankruptcy as it allowed debt to be shed or completely restructured. Recall that pension we all had. Thought so.

We can view what happened in BK two ways. The "compliant and be humble" view is to except Ed's idea he feeds Wall Street that we have accepted a permanent reset to wages and benefits. Or, you can view it as we gave up a large portion of our pay, work rules, benefits and pension to save the company and help in their time of need. Additionally, we are the same as the others creditors and investors. We need to see a significant return on that investment as the other creditors and investors have. We have contributed over "1 billlllllion" a year on the south side alone in savings post bk.

Thus, 4-8-3-3 does not cut it. It barely keeps up with inflation. How much longer do you want to be managements cash machine??? Every time there is a hick up, do you feel it necessary to give to help them out???

In closing, ALPA is tone deaf at this time. DPA would fade permanently tomorrow if ALPA addressed this, and made strides to assure their 5000 plus pilots that have signed cards that it's time to be compensated for our contributions and sacrifices our families have made to "save the company"; their words not mine. They can do this and still have a productive relationship with Mahogany Row. It's boils down to it just business, not personal. That is why gearjerk you should not feel compliant and humble about asking for your investment back. DALPA's plan to send reps, that were voted out of office and then placed on special committees, to overseas bars on FPL to convince pilots not to align with the DPA is ludicrous. That just feeds into DPAs strength. Having a back bone and explaining that we will be aggressively, yet respectfully, asking for our investment back going forward is appropriate. Remember, it is just business.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

You do? By reading the following posts of yours, it doesn't sound like it:







The above posts shows me you can see some of the problems with ALPA. But then you write this:



Which shows me an emotion based decision of taking a "proven commodity" even if what they've "proven" are the problems you listed above. Sounds like a "devil we know versus the devil we don't know" thought process which is clearly fear-based and emotional.

Carl