Elliot

Everyone on this forum knows you're a 'chick'. Don't call me "Dude", and I won't call you a 'chick'. Got it?

Thanks,

GJ

Edit: P.S. Try taking into account inflationary numbers for every other professional organization in the previous five years, and then taking into account what their pay increases were? GMAFB…….CHICK. Quit acting like the piloting profession is in an 'economic VACUUM', and our pay increases must account for both lost wages of the previous economic recessionary period, and inflationary increases over that same period.

scambo1

No insult taken. I understand the crack pipe.

If you want honesty, we must start with the actions of our CBA. Their actions would back up your perspective, but at least you admit that restoration is neither your goal or achievable. On the other hand, I reject that, but we know what they say about opinions and *********s.

We have all lived thru the "lost decade" where America has stepped to the precipice of irrelevance. Policeman to the world, for hire, is our only international leverage. It reminds me of the Styx song Suite Madame Blue (odd analogy).

We at Delta are not where the rest of the industry is today - at all. And we weren't last July either. We are hitting on 11 of 12 cylinders, unical is hitting on 5 of 8 and AA/USAir is hitting on 3 of 6. We can't be compared to swa, FedEx, ups, AF/KLM? I simply reject the insult to honesty and my intelligence that has been delivered by DALPA. IMO, they made a strategic blunder in C12 by accepting bankruptcy as a reset.

The point of my post is not to throw an apple from the wings at the performer on stage, but I know when I'm being misled. We pay good money for representation. I don't think we are getting told the truth by those we pay. I also don't think we are getting bold leadership from national.

At the end of the day, given the metrics as I read them, I see no reason to fear or stand in the way of a representation change based solely on the performance of our current representation. Believe me, that is not an endorsement of the alternate representative.

Columbia

You know, I was going to leave out the executive pay as I KNEW that would be the ONLY point you would address. So, leaving that out, what about the other much, much improved metrics, many of which are better and healthier for the company than during C2K?

CVG767A

I don't think we're ever going to see that day. DPA will continue to assert that they have "almost enough cards to call for an election".

TheManager

So gearjerk, the answer to your questions lies in economics. Every business entity, and particularly those that are heavily energy dependent, have raised the cost of their product to account for those increases. Cruise lines, plumbers, rail roads, shippers, they all do it successfully. Airlines have done so as well.

Therefore, I don't share your view that we should except lower wages because crude oil costs more. Particularly when the goods and services we buy cost more as the higher energy costs are priced into their products.

Despite the fact that the economy hasn't recovered in your view, the airlines are doing exceedingly well. Thank the unbundling of fees. You can also thank bankruptcy as it allowed debt to be shed or completely restructured. Recall that pension we all had. Thought so.

We can view what happened in BK two ways. The "compliant and be humble" view is to except Ed's idea he feeds Wall Street that we have accepted a permanent reset to wages and benefits. Or, you can view it as we gave up a large portion of our pay, work rules, benefits and pension to save the company and help in their time of need. Additionally, we are the same as the others creditors and investors. We need to see a significant return on that investment as the other creditors and investors have. We have contributed over "1 billlllllion" a year on the south side alone in savings post BK.

Thus, 4-8-3-3 does not cut it. It barely keeps up with inflation. How much longer do you want to be managements cash machine??? Every time there is a hick up, do you feel it necessary to give to help them out??? When it happens and they crank up the FUD propaganda, do you want to be the easy low hanging fruit?

In closing, ALPA is tone deaf at this time. DPA would fade permanently tomorrow if ALPA addressed this, and made strides to assure their 5000 plus pilots that have signed cards that it's time to be compensated for our contributions and sacrifices our families have made to "save the company"; their words not mine.
They can do this and still have a productive relationship with Mahogany Row. Again, it boils down to it is just business, not personal. That is why gearjerk, you should not feel compliant and humble about asking for your investment back.

DALPA's plan to send reps, that were voted out of office and then placed on special committees, to overseas bars on FPL to convince pilots not to align with the DPA is ludicrous. This is especially so after seeing extravagant receipts for liquor and meals from various places around DC and at annual executive board meetings. In the past I have been to simple air safety award banquets with open bars, surf and turf, and rented casitas for "entertaining" with the kitchen counter stocked full of liquor and a bar tender pouring. The overseas pubs would be a strategic face palm that just feeds into DPAs strength and will put DALPA closer to failure. Having a back bone and explaining that we will be aggressively, yet respectfully, asking for our investment back going forward is appropriate.

Remember, it is just business. Your later comment about the thousands of applicants vying for open pilot positions is telling. It reeks of fear and weakness. Our strength as an association of pilots lies directly on unity and self worth. We as a group do not have unity and it is within us we find our self worth. Don't let a corporation determine that for you or accept their version of how they want you to determine your value to them.

Hillbilly

Since the June 1, 2006 pay rates from our bankruptcy contract (our rock bottom) we have increased our rates by 41.4% effective with the January 1, 2014 pay raise. That's in 7 1/2 years. Based on the rates in place just prior to Letter 46 taking effect in December 2004 (our all time peak), we will need another 18.2% after the end rates of our current PWA (C2012) to get back to the original published rates in place before we took the first round of pay cuts.

I understand this does not take inflation into account. I'm only referencing what our actual pay rate was and what our actual pay rate is.

nwaf16dude

Honest question, no hidden agenda...what is the largest single year raise delta pilots have ever received?

TheManager

So gearjerk, the answer to your questions lies in economics. Every business entity, and particularly those that are heavily energy dependent, have raised the cost of their product to account for those increases. Cruise lines, plumbers, rail roads, shippers, they all do it successfully. Airlines have done so as well.

Therefore, I don't share your view that we should except lower wages because crude oil costs more especially when the goods and services we buy cost more as the higher energy costs are priced into their products.

Despite the fact that the economy hasn't recovered in your view, the airlines are doing exceedingly well. Thank the unbundling of fees. You can also thank bankruptcy as it allowed debt to be shed or completely restructured. Recall that pension we all had. Thought so.

We can view what happened in BK two ways. The "compliant and be humble" view is to except Ed's idea he feeds Wall Street that we have accepted a permanent reset to wages and benefits. Or, you can view it as we gave up a large portion of our pay, work rules, benefits and pension to save the company and help in their time of need. Additionally, we are the same as the others creditors and investors. We need to see a significant return on that investment as the other creditors and investors have. We have contributed over "1 billlllllion" a year on the south side alone in savings post bk.

Thus, 4-8-3-3 does not cut it. It barely keeps up with inflation. How much longer do you want to be managements cash machine??? Every time there is a hick up, do you feel it necessary to give to help them out???

In closing, ALPA is tone deaf at this time. DPA would fade permanently tomorrow if ALPA addressed this, and made strides to assure their 5000 plus pilots that have signed cards that it's time to be compensated for our contributions and sacrifices our families have made to "save the company"; their words not mine. They can do this and still have a productive relationship with Mahogany Row. It's boils down to it just business, not personal. That is why gearjerk you should not feel compliant and humble about asking for your investment back. DALPA's plan to send reps, that were voted out of office and then placed on special committees, to overseas bars on FPL to convince pilots not to align with the DPA is ludicrous. That just feeds into DPAs strength. Having a back bone and explaining that we will be aggressively, yet respectfully, asking for our investment back going forward is appropriate. Remember, it is just business.

Elliot

Manager,

Thank you for the level reply.

1) I agree that 4, 8.5, 3, 3 doesn't cut it.

2) I DO believe we can see restoration, & DO believe it should be a goal of our pilot group, the pilot profession, & industry as a whole,

BUT,

3) I don't believe the DPA plan of 'give us what we once had, or we'll burn the place down' will give us our NEEDED "restoration" any sooner than the path we're on.

Just my opinion.

thanks,

GJ

P.S. Scambo, I wrote a lengthy, respectful reply to your post. Prior to me submitting my reply, I was disconnected from APC. You'll just have to go with, "I want restoration too," just not the 'beating drum, beat down the door' restoration plan like DPA has offered as a strategy. That's all. Again, just my opinion.

scambo1

I hate it when I write a book and get kicked off APC. For the record, I don't blame ALPA when that happens.