DAL 88 Driver

I don't know. It's not about changing our circumstances. It's about doing the best we can with our circumstances and to fully utilize leverage when necessary. I suspect it's going to take a somewhat more aggressive approach, especially given the precedent and expectations we've set with management over the past 8 years. May take more than "once cycle" but we're going to have to do a lot better than 16% in 8 years if we're ever going to get there.

But first it's going to take identifying our objective and developing a plan to achieve it. DALPA's objective is clearly something well short of what I think our objective should be (restoration). If you set the bar low, you are unlike to achieve results above that bar. DALPA has had plenty of time. And I've had plenty of time to see what they are all about. IMO, it's time for a change (actually well past time) so that we can at least TRY to get this profession and our careers back on track.

Is DPA the answer? Who knows? I don't like everything I've seen from them. But I do like most of what I've seen a lot better than what I've seen from DALPA. DPA (or anyone else) is going to have a big mountain to climb to overcome the damaging precedent that's been set by ALPA over the past decade. Just one pilot's opinion here. If/when it comes to a vote, I will vote for DPA. I have zero confidence in DALPA/ALPA's ability to represent my best interests.

scambo1

T,
Given C2k as a benchmark, can you give us ALPAs plan to get back there?

Insanity-doing the same thing and expecting a different result.

And I'm not a donut guy, just being intellectually honest.

Elliot

I can't take your ignorant posts anymore. Why do you keep saying 16%? Where did you go to school and learn math?

You do realize that a 4-year, (4, 8.5, 3, 3) contract equals a 20% pay raise, right? You're also probably expecting a 73% pay raise, equals a three year contract of 25%, 25%, and 23%? GMAFB, and you wonder why nobody takes you and the rest of the DPA push seriously.

GJ

Columbia

Gmafb, dude. Try backing out CPI each year. Now what do you get, aside from increased productivity? Knock off the hyperbowl.

scambo1

Please do your addition again. Please also account for the effect of inflation and the change in profit sharing and the requirement to fund our retirements.

I think 88 is being generous.

dalad

Contract 2000 had no profit sharing.

Elliot

Why do you keep using C2k as a "benchmark"? (Serious question.) I went back-and-forth with DAL88driver about this just a few pages ago. I decided to take a couple days off, but the 'crack of APC' is just too strong.

Please explain why you keep using a contract you had OVER a decade ago, as a "benchmark" of what you 'deserve' now? You're old enough to know (not an insult) Scambo, times change. Oil is twice the amount/barrel that it was back then. Almost every single one of the legacy carriers have been through bankruptcy reorganization, the economy still hasn't recovered from the Administration's plan of 'spending us into prosperity'. Again, I ask, why is it that you think we can just 'jump back to what we were making 13 years ago'? Because we're good looking, and gall darn, we deserve it? (I may hold the good looking part, but poop in one hand, and keep beating the drum with the other, and what do you end up with?)

Honestly, I don't think you are Scambo? From your posts, and my apologies if I've interpreted your posts incorrectly, I don't understand how you're being "intellectually honest" with the question of 'restoration', when people refuse to accept the other facts, OTHER THAN D-ALPA, as to why the industry is "where it's at" today.

Just my .02. If it offends you, my apologies.

Columbia

The company and industry as a whole are doing much, much better than during the early 2000s. Load factors are way up, YIELDS are much better, pilot productivity is way up, executive pay is better than in the early 2000s, etc. etc, etc....

Elliot

Based on a 4-year contract (4, 8.5, 3, 3) and a 200/hr pay rate, here's your math Scambo.

$200 x 4% = $208/hr

$208 x 8.5% = $225.68/hr

$225.68 x 3% = 232.45/hr

$232.45 x 3% = 239.42/hr

equalling (what DAL 88 was referring to as a 16% pay increase) a 19.7% pay increase.

Please tell me how that four year contract equals a 16% pay increase? It's what DAL 88 said, not me.

What "requirement to fund our retirement accounts" did I miss in the contract? I'm not seeing that wording, please point out the verbiage?

Elliot

Then you had better become an Executive, at a multi-billion dollar corporation. You're a pilot, that's right, a pilot who is an EMPLOYEE of a corporation, owned by shareholders, run by a Board of Directors.

I probably don't need to remind you of the fact that when a new "pilot position" comes open for application, the Delta Air Lines corporation we are "employed" by, has 10,000+ pilot (employee) applicants.

Your executive = pilot pay increases argument is apples - oranges.

GJ