DAL 88 Driver

I've seen DALPA's plan. No thanks. Having the idea that you can only achieve a little here and there when the opportunity presents itself is about as "changey hopey" as it gets. We've got some serious ground to make up after taking a 42% cut (among other significant losses) and then piddling around for 10 years getting 16% of the 73% needed to restore. Sitting around and hoping for some kind of "opportunity" to fall in your lap is not likely to get us anywhere near a restorative objective. Which brings me to perhaps the biggest reason I do not like DALPA... they do not have a restorative objective in the first place (and they're not being honest about it with the pilot group).

I don't think there's any way to know if DPA will be up to the task until they have the opportunity to try. What I do know is that DALPA is not up to the task and is not trying (restoration). It is what it is.

tsquare

Jeezis.... we get it.... do you have to post the percentages every single time this discussion comes up?

I don't hope for an opportunity. I'll take a little bite now and then, just like your beloved SWA did for years and years and years.... You wanna swing for the fences, you better be ready to strike out a lot. I don't like striking out. Singles and doubles my friend.......

DAL 88 Driver

Those percentages bother you, don't they. They should. It's a big deficit to overcome. (Unless you're not into overcoming the deficit.)

SWA didn't take a 42% pay cut. THAT is the difference in the success of their "little bite now and then" and our "little bite now and then." Different situations requiring different strategies. I think that's why it bothers you when I keep posting the percentages... because you know how big of a deficit it is, you don't think we can or should try to overcome it, and you don't want to admit publicly that you and DALPA think that way.

Free Mason

What did you have back during C2K?

Vibrant economy, years of airline profits, and an industry that had pilots costs are relatively constant across property lines. (Sans SWA as they were the anchor)

What have you not had since 9-11? Exactly that.

What "might" you have in 2015?

Exactly that.

Can you get restoration of a dollar amount?

Yes, maybe day one, maybe in the lift of the contract. The next 15 months will determine that.

Can you get your buying power back on day one or the life of the contract?

No way. Ain't gonna happen. Its just too much for one major cycle where the environment is exactly what we need.

Could you do it in two cycles?

Much more probable. I could do the math but that is years away. I would like another three year deal. Max.

I am not in to narco-posting, but three or four years ago ACL65 said it would take two contract cycles in great times to get there. Did he not? I think that is more of a reality than you may want to admit to even yourself.

Blame ALPA if you must, be also look what has happened to the macro economy in America, household buying power and average dollar earnings over the same decade, as well as the increased costs of basic necessities for the families that were the fluff to our margins. We are getting close to the same sort of company we had back then, but to expect any bargaining agent; ALPA(DALPA), IPA, SWAPA, IPA, DPA, etc to be able to do that and not have to wait for half of this list to retire is rhetoric to put it nicely.

Purple Drank

Jeezis... we get it.. do you have to say "hopey changey" and gripe about Obama every single time this discussion comes up?


Say...why do you get to agitate for a new group to run the country, but no one can agitate for a new group to represent Delta pilots?

DAL 88 Driver

Well if ACL65 said it... it must be right, right?

Hey, I never said it would be easy. Maybe we won't ever fully get back our buying power. But we've made about 16% progress (out of 73% needed) in almost 10 years. 10 years! And with Delta making billions in profits, we're still arguing about whether we should even undertake the mission of restoration. I do blame DALPA mostly for that. That's the leadership they have provided for this pilot group and the direction they have taken us. Acceptance of bankruptcy as a reset and try to get the best "reasonable" improvements you can get from that new baseline. THAT is DALPA's philosophy. You may agree with that. I don't.

dalad

More like 8 years.

DAL 88 Driver

Yeah, I'm talking about through the end of the current contract (in 2015), which would be 10 years. But you are correct, we're currently at 8 years. Still a very long time to make 16% progress out of 73% needed... especially considering the success of our company, the degree to which other employee groups have recovered their buying power, and the degree to which management has ADVANCED theirs.

johnso29

As long as management can look at the NMB and point to AMR/Us Airways pilot's wages, the comparison holds water.

If people want to criticize ALPA by pointing at SWA pilot's earnings, then they have to accept comparisons to AMR, Us Air, etc as well. It's not a one way street.

80ktsClamp

Do you believe voting in the DPA would change our leverage enough to get that in one cycle?