Delta Pilots Association
01-22-2013, 09:42 AM
#7641
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,049
DPA predication's:
1) if they ever get enough cards to call a vote a large percentage of them will be rendered invalid due to being out of date during the ballot certification.
2) should it ever actually come to an election they will be soundly defeated as most pilots are just sending a message to ALPA.
3) if in the unlikely event they are elected they will produce far less and represent poorly the DAL pilots.
4) they will assess the DAL pilots to cover thier legal fees of last several years
5) with ALPA's future questionable at that point Lee Moak and boys will orchestrate a recall of the DPA leadership, get themselves elected and we'll be right back where we started.
6) it will never get passed #1
1) if they ever get enough cards to call a vote a large percentage of them will be rendered invalid due to being out of date during the ballot certification.
2) should it ever actually come to an election they will be soundly defeated as most pilots are just sending a message to ALPA.
3) if in the unlikely event they are elected they will produce far less and represent poorly the DAL pilots.
4) they will assess the DAL pilots to cover thier legal fees of last several years
5) with ALPA's future questionable at that point Lee Moak and boys will orchestrate a recall of the DPA leadership, get themselves elected and we'll be right back where we started.
6) it will never get passed #1
Apparently the DPA loves the status quo. The fact they've done n o t h i n g tells me that the DPA is not the reformists they claim to be.
02-26-2013, 08:11 PM
#7644
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,357
I thought this latest DPA response had some excellent points so re-posting on the DPA thread.
FROM THE DPA INBOX:
This week, we feature an email exchange between DPA and a current ALPA volunteer. It answers many questions we often receive:
Dear DPA,
As you may know, FO elections are happening in NYC and LAX. I know you are continuing to organize a different representative organization, but I really hope you recognize that while a pilot may be hesitant to take that big of a step, that same pilot may be willing to cast a vote for change that is not so big of a step.
I have flown with many DPA supporters. Many of them do not participate in ALPA elections as a protest. I think this is a mistake. I think you could effect change even as you continue your organizing efforts by focusing the support you have in your group on individual elections. I think a failure to capitalize in this area is the recent election of XXX Omitted XXX in Base XXX. A very few votes for the other candidate would have prevented this. Another example is the recent Base XXX elections for both Captain and FO reps. I respectfully urge you to focus support within your group to local elections and effect change in this important area. The recent MEC and Negotiation Committee elections are evidence that politics is more important than the pilots. Electing candidates in strategic elections will benefit the pilot group by moving away from politics as usual.
ALPA Volunteer
Dear ALPA Volunteer,
We have this request for support for particular candidates come up frequently. Our answer is always the same. DPA will not support candidates seeking positions in a structure that is fundamentally broken.
If there was a way to take over the MEC and then separate us from all of the National issues (TWA, AirTran, UAL lawsuits, etc., dues going to support our competition, a neutered safety program, refusal to publish and follow survey results, refusal to publish flight pay loss back to 2010 for all who received it, a neutral agent when it comes to combining two ALPA carriers, refusal to report all financials for Kitty Hawk back to 1991, leaders going on to management, leaders taking consulting jobs with ALPA after leaving, not getting to vote for President or MEC Chair, etc., double the dues rate of other independents, bonus retirement for leaders that the members don't have, $36,500 oil paintings, refusal to enforce the contract or prosecute grievances properly, poorly written contracts, shared attorneys with competition, $302,000 in 2012 taxicab fares, $360/night hotel rooms, unlimited alcohol at hospitality suites, refusal to publish all National finances (line item expenses, payments, income, etc.), placing the Unity Resolution of 2000 demands over the needs of current members, refusal to follow written policy (purchasing $120,000 of office furniture without prior approval as required by the manual and then asking for approval post-purchase), taking dues from profit sharing, not defending the pensions beginning with USAir, encouraging the success of the regionals by giving them larger and more efficient aircraft to outsource our flying to, reimbursing officers for income tax liabilities, $1,000 stipends to pay the lawn boy, inability to create a national seniority list or some form of consistent recognition of longevity of ALPA membership, fighting against the 1,500 hour flight time requirement for 121 carriers, fighting for raising the retirement age to 65 contrary to the membership mandate) .....I'm sure I forgot a few.
If there were a way to break away from all of that and still stay in ALPA, then we might consider this type of action. I think these macro-level changes are highly unlikely to impossible, so we won't invest in prolonging it. While we won't support the elections, neither will we interfere in them. I am giving ALPA EVERY chance to make the changes that are necessary without disrupting daily business. I am withholding recommending resigning ALPA membership and removing dues check off as well unless some significant reason to do so is forced on us. We are going to get this done and it will be with minimal disruption.
As always, I am appreciative of your hard work, but baffled by your adhesion to ALPA. I am curious if you are satisfied with the current level of the MCF and the measures taken to fund it in light of all the lawsuits ALPA has in progress. Are you okay with Jalmer Johnson taking his ALPA National retirement now, before these lawsuits hit, but then immediately taking a consulting job with ALPA and enjoying double-dipping for as long as ALPA stays afloat?
I hope you will join us soon. We need you.
DPA
FROM THE DPA INBOX:
This week, we feature an email exchange between DPA and a current ALPA volunteer. It answers many questions we often receive:
Dear DPA,
As you may know, FO elections are happening in NYC and LAX. I know you are continuing to organize a different representative organization, but I really hope you recognize that while a pilot may be hesitant to take that big of a step, that same pilot may be willing to cast a vote for change that is not so big of a step.
I have flown with many DPA supporters. Many of them do not participate in ALPA elections as a protest. I think this is a mistake. I think you could effect change even as you continue your organizing efforts by focusing the support you have in your group on individual elections. I think a failure to capitalize in this area is the recent election of XXX Omitted XXX in Base XXX. A very few votes for the other candidate would have prevented this. Another example is the recent Base XXX elections for both Captain and FO reps. I respectfully urge you to focus support within your group to local elections and effect change in this important area. The recent MEC and Negotiation Committee elections are evidence that politics is more important than the pilots. Electing candidates in strategic elections will benefit the pilot group by moving away from politics as usual.
ALPA Volunteer
Dear ALPA Volunteer,
We have this request for support for particular candidates come up frequently. Our answer is always the same. DPA will not support candidates seeking positions in a structure that is fundamentally broken.
If there was a way to take over the MEC and then separate us from all of the National issues (TWA, AirTran, UAL lawsuits, etc., dues going to support our competition, a neutered safety program, refusal to publish and follow survey results, refusal to publish flight pay loss back to 2010 for all who received it, a neutral agent when it comes to combining two ALPA carriers, refusal to report all financials for Kitty Hawk back to 1991, leaders going on to management, leaders taking consulting jobs with ALPA after leaving, not getting to vote for President or MEC Chair, etc., double the dues rate of other independents, bonus retirement for leaders that the members don't have, $36,500 oil paintings, refusal to enforce the contract or prosecute grievances properly, poorly written contracts, shared attorneys with competition, $302,000 in 2012 taxicab fares, $360/night hotel rooms, unlimited alcohol at hospitality suites, refusal to publish all National finances (line item expenses, payments, income, etc.), placing the Unity Resolution of 2000 demands over the needs of current members, refusal to follow written policy (purchasing $120,000 of office furniture without prior approval as required by the manual and then asking for approval post-purchase), taking dues from profit sharing, not defending the pensions beginning with USAir, encouraging the success of the regionals by giving them larger and more efficient aircraft to outsource our flying to, reimbursing officers for income tax liabilities, $1,000 stipends to pay the lawn boy, inability to create a national seniority list or some form of consistent recognition of longevity of ALPA membership, fighting against the 1,500 hour flight time requirement for 121 carriers, fighting for raising the retirement age to 65 contrary to the membership mandate) .....I'm sure I forgot a few.
If there were a way to break away from all of that and still stay in ALPA, then we might consider this type of action. I think these macro-level changes are highly unlikely to impossible, so we won't invest in prolonging it. While we won't support the elections, neither will we interfere in them. I am giving ALPA EVERY chance to make the changes that are necessary without disrupting daily business. I am withholding recommending resigning ALPA membership and removing dues check off as well unless some significant reason to do so is forced on us. We are going to get this done and it will be with minimal disruption.
As always, I am appreciative of your hard work, but baffled by your adhesion to ALPA. I am curious if you are satisfied with the current level of the MCF and the measures taken to fund it in light of all the lawsuits ALPA has in progress. Are you okay with Jalmer Johnson taking his ALPA National retirement now, before these lawsuits hit, but then immediately taking a consulting job with ALPA and enjoying double-dipping for as long as ALPA stays afloat?
I hope you will join us soon. We need you.
DPA
02-27-2013, 01:07 AM
#7645
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 273
I thought this latest DPA response had some excellent points so re-posting on the DPA thread.
FROM THE DPA INBOX:
This week, we feature an email exchange between DPA and a current ALPA volunteer. It answers many questions we often receive:
Dear DPA,
As you may know, FO elections are happening in NYC and LAX. I know you are continuing to organize a different representative organization, but I really hope you recognize that while a pilot may be hesitant to take that big of a step, that same pilot may be willing to cast a vote for change that is not so big of a step.
I have flown with many DPA supporters. Many of them do not participate in ALPA elections as a protest. I think this is a mistake. I think you could effect change even as you continue your organizing efforts by focusing the support you have in your group on individual elections. I think a failure to capitalize in this area is the recent election of XXX Omitted XXX in Base XXX. A very few votes for the other candidate would have prevented this. Another example is the recent Base XXX elections for both Captain and FO reps. I respectfully urge you to focus support within your group to local elections and effect change in this important area. The recent MEC and Negotiation Committee elections are evidence that politics is more important than the pilots. Electing candidates in strategic elections will benefit the pilot group by moving away from politics as usual.
ALPA Volunteer
Dear ALPA Volunteer,
We have this request for support for particular candidates come up frequently. Our answer is always the same. DPA will not support candidates seeking positions in a structure that is fundamentally broken.
If there was a way to take over the MEC and then separate us from all of the National issues (TWA, AirTran, UAL lawsuits, etc., dues going to support our competition, a neutered safety program, refusal to publish and follow survey results, refusal to publish flight pay loss back to 2010 for all who received it, a neutral agent when it comes to combining two ALPA carriers, refusal to report all financials for Kitty Hawk back to 1991, leaders going on to management, leaders taking consulting jobs with ALPA after leaving, not getting to vote for President or MEC Chair, etc., double the dues rate of other independents, bonus retirement for leaders that the members don't have, $36,500 oil paintings, refusal to enforce the contract or prosecute grievances properly, poorly written contracts, shared attorneys with competition, $302,000 in 2012 taxicab fares, $360/night hotel rooms, unlimited alcohol at hospitality suites, refusal to publish all National finances (line item expenses, payments, income, etc.), placing the Unity Resolution of 2000 demands over the needs of current members, refusal to follow written policy (purchasing $120,000 of office furniture without prior approval as required by the manual and then asking for approval post-purchase), taking dues from profit sharing, not defending the pensions beginning with USAir, encouraging the success of the regionals by giving them larger and more efficient aircraft to outsource our flying to, reimbursing officers for income tax liabilities, $1,000 stipends to pay the lawn boy, inability to create a national seniority list or some form of consistent recognition of longevity of ALPA membership, fighting against the 1,500 hour flight time requirement for 121 carriers, fighting for raising the retirement age to 65 contrary to the membership mandate) .....I'm sure I forgot a few.
If there were a way to break away from all of that and still stay in ALPA, then we might consider this type of action. I think these macro-level changes are highly unlikely to impossible, so we won't invest in prolonging it. While we won't support the elections, neither will we interfere in them. I am giving ALPA EVERY chance to make the changes that are necessary without disrupting daily business. I am withholding recommending resigning ALPA membership and removing dues check off as well unless some significant reason to do so is forced on us. We are going to get this done and it will be with minimal disruption.
As always, I am appreciative of your hard work, but baffled by your adhesion to ALPA. I am curious if you are satisfied with the current level of the MCF and the measures taken to fund it in light of all the lawsuits ALPA has in progress. Are you okay with Jalmer Johnson taking his ALPA National retirement now, before these lawsuits hit, but then immediately taking a consulting job with ALPA and enjoying double-dipping for as long as ALPA stays afloat?
I hope you will join us soon. We need you.
DPA
FROM THE DPA INBOX:
This week, we feature an email exchange between DPA and a current ALPA volunteer. It answers many questions we often receive:
Dear DPA,
As you may know, FO elections are happening in NYC and LAX. I know you are continuing to organize a different representative organization, but I really hope you recognize that while a pilot may be hesitant to take that big of a step, that same pilot may be willing to cast a vote for change that is not so big of a step.
I have flown with many DPA supporters. Many of them do not participate in ALPA elections as a protest. I think this is a mistake. I think you could effect change even as you continue your organizing efforts by focusing the support you have in your group on individual elections. I think a failure to capitalize in this area is the recent election of XXX Omitted XXX in Base XXX. A very few votes for the other candidate would have prevented this. Another example is the recent Base XXX elections for both Captain and FO reps. I respectfully urge you to focus support within your group to local elections and effect change in this important area. The recent MEC and Negotiation Committee elections are evidence that politics is more important than the pilots. Electing candidates in strategic elections will benefit the pilot group by moving away from politics as usual.
ALPA Volunteer
Dear ALPA Volunteer,
We have this request for support for particular candidates come up frequently. Our answer is always the same. DPA will not support candidates seeking positions in a structure that is fundamentally broken.
If there was a way to take over the MEC and then separate us from all of the National issues (TWA, AirTran, UAL lawsuits, etc., dues going to support our competition, a neutered safety program, refusal to publish and follow survey results, refusal to publish flight pay loss back to 2010 for all who received it, a neutral agent when it comes to combining two ALPA carriers, refusal to report all financials for Kitty Hawk back to 1991, leaders going on to management, leaders taking consulting jobs with ALPA after leaving, not getting to vote for President or MEC Chair, etc., double the dues rate of other independents, bonus retirement for leaders that the members don't have, $36,500 oil paintings, refusal to enforce the contract or prosecute grievances properly, poorly written contracts, shared attorneys with competition, $302,000 in 2012 taxicab fares, $360/night hotel rooms, unlimited alcohol at hospitality suites, refusal to publish all National finances (line item expenses, payments, income, etc.), placing the Unity Resolution of 2000 demands over the needs of current members, refusal to follow written policy (purchasing $120,000 of office furniture without prior approval as required by the manual and then asking for approval post-purchase), taking dues from profit sharing, not defending the pensions beginning with USAir, encouraging the success of the regionals by giving them larger and more efficient aircraft to outsource our flying to, reimbursing officers for income tax liabilities, $1,000 stipends to pay the lawn boy, inability to create a national seniority list or some form of consistent recognition of longevity of ALPA membership, fighting against the 1,500 hour flight time requirement for 121 carriers, fighting for raising the retirement age to 65 contrary to the membership mandate) .....I'm sure I forgot a few.
If there were a way to break away from all of that and still stay in ALPA, then we might consider this type of action. I think these macro-level changes are highly unlikely to impossible, so we won't invest in prolonging it. While we won't support the elections, neither will we interfere in them. I am giving ALPA EVERY chance to make the changes that are necessary without disrupting daily business. I am withholding recommending resigning ALPA membership and removing dues check off as well unless some significant reason to do so is forced on us. We are going to get this done and it will be with minimal disruption.
As always, I am appreciative of your hard work, but baffled by your adhesion to ALPA. I am curious if you are satisfied with the current level of the MCF and the measures taken to fund it in light of all the lawsuits ALPA has in progress. Are you okay with Jalmer Johnson taking his ALPA National retirement now, before these lawsuits hit, but then immediately taking a consulting job with ALPA and enjoying double-dipping for as long as ALPA stays afloat?
I hope you will join us soon. We need you.
DPA
02-27-2013, 12:57 PM
#7648
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: 7ERA
Posts: 269
I thought this latest DPA response had some excellent points so re-posting on the DPA thread.
FROM THE DPA INBOX:
This week, we feature an email exchange between DPA and a current ALPA volunteer. It answers many questions we often receive:
Dear DPA,
As you may know, FO elections are happening in NYC and LAX. I know you are continuing to organize a different representative organization, but I really hope you recognize that while a pilot may be hesitant to take that big of a step, that same pilot may be willing to cast a vote for change that is not so big of a step.
I have flown with many DPA supporters. Many of them do not participate in ALPA elections as a protest. I think this is a mistake. I think you could effect change even as you continue your organizing efforts by focusing the support you have in your group on individual elections. I think a failure to capitalize in this area is the recent election of XXX Omitted XXX in Base XXX. A very few votes for the other candidate would have prevented this. Another example is the recent Base XXX elections for both Captain and FO reps. I respectfully urge you to focus support within your group to local elections and effect change in this important area. The recent MEC and Negotiation Committee elections are evidence that politics is more important than the pilots. Electing candidates in strategic elections will benefit the pilot group by moving away from politics as usual.
ALPA Volunteer
Dear ALPA Volunteer,
We have this request for support for particular candidates come up frequently. Our answer is always the same. DPA will not support candidates seeking positions in a structure that is fundamentally broken.
If there was a way to take over the MEC and then separate us from all of the National issues (TWA, AirTran, UAL lawsuits, etc., dues going to support our competition, a neutered safety program, refusal to publish and follow survey results, refusal to publish flight pay loss back to 2010 for all who received it, a neutral agent when it comes to combining two ALPA carriers, refusal to report all financials for Kitty Hawk back to 1991, leaders going on to management, leaders taking consulting jobs with ALPA after leaving, not getting to vote for President or MEC Chair, etc., double the dues rate of other independents, bonus retirement for leaders that the members don't have, $36,500 oil paintings, refusal to enforce the contract or prosecute grievances properly, poorly written contracts, shared attorneys with competition, $302,000 in 2012 taxicab fares, $360/night hotel rooms, unlimited alcohol at hospitality suites, refusal to publish all National finances (line item expenses, payments, income, etc.), placing the Unity Resolution of 2000 demands over the needs of current members, refusal to follow written policy (purchasing $120,000 of office furniture without prior approval as required by the manual and then asking for approval post-purchase), taking dues from profit sharing, not defending the pensions beginning with USAir, encouraging the success of the regionals by giving them larger and more efficient aircraft to outsource our flying to, reimbursing officers for income tax liabilities, $1,000 stipends to pay the lawn boy, inability to create a national seniority list or some form of consistent recognition of longevity of ALPA membership, fighting against the 1,500 hour flight time requirement for 121 carriers, fighting for raising the retirement age to 65 contrary to the membership mandate) .....I'm sure I forgot a few.
If there were a way to break away from all of that and still stay in ALPA, then we might consider this type of action. I think these macro-level changes are highly unlikely to impossible, so we won't invest in prolonging it. While we won't support the elections, neither will we interfere in them. I am giving ALPA EVERY chance to make the changes that are necessary without disrupting daily business. I am withholding recommending resigning ALPA membership and removing dues check off as well unless some significant reason to do so is forced on us. We are going to get this done and it will be with minimal disruption.
As always, I am appreciative of your hard work, but baffled by your adhesion to ALPA. I am curious if you are satisfied with the current level of the MCF and the measures taken to fund it in light of all the lawsuits ALPA has in progress. Are you okay with Jalmer Johnson taking his ALPA National retirement now, before these lawsuits hit, but then immediately taking a consulting job with ALPA and enjoying double-dipping for as long as ALPA stays afloat?
I hope you will join us soon. We need you.
DPA
FROM THE DPA INBOX:
This week, we feature an email exchange between DPA and a current ALPA volunteer. It answers many questions we often receive:
Dear DPA,
As you may know, FO elections are happening in NYC and LAX. I know you are continuing to organize a different representative organization, but I really hope you recognize that while a pilot may be hesitant to take that big of a step, that same pilot may be willing to cast a vote for change that is not so big of a step.
I have flown with many DPA supporters. Many of them do not participate in ALPA elections as a protest. I think this is a mistake. I think you could effect change even as you continue your organizing efforts by focusing the support you have in your group on individual elections. I think a failure to capitalize in this area is the recent election of XXX Omitted XXX in Base XXX. A very few votes for the other candidate would have prevented this. Another example is the recent Base XXX elections for both Captain and FO reps. I respectfully urge you to focus support within your group to local elections and effect change in this important area. The recent MEC and Negotiation Committee elections are evidence that politics is more important than the pilots. Electing candidates in strategic elections will benefit the pilot group by moving away from politics as usual.
ALPA Volunteer
Dear ALPA Volunteer,
We have this request for support for particular candidates come up frequently. Our answer is always the same. DPA will not support candidates seeking positions in a structure that is fundamentally broken.
If there was a way to take over the MEC and then separate us from all of the National issues (TWA, AirTran, UAL lawsuits, etc., dues going to support our competition, a neutered safety program, refusal to publish and follow survey results, refusal to publish flight pay loss back to 2010 for all who received it, a neutral agent when it comes to combining two ALPA carriers, refusal to report all financials for Kitty Hawk back to 1991, leaders going on to management, leaders taking consulting jobs with ALPA after leaving, not getting to vote for President or MEC Chair, etc., double the dues rate of other independents, bonus retirement for leaders that the members don't have, $36,500 oil paintings, refusal to enforce the contract or prosecute grievances properly, poorly written contracts, shared attorneys with competition, $302,000 in 2012 taxicab fares, $360/night hotel rooms, unlimited alcohol at hospitality suites, refusal to publish all National finances (line item expenses, payments, income, etc.), placing the Unity Resolution of 2000 demands over the needs of current members, refusal to follow written policy (purchasing $120,000 of office furniture without prior approval as required by the manual and then asking for approval post-purchase), taking dues from profit sharing, not defending the pensions beginning with USAir, encouraging the success of the regionals by giving them larger and more efficient aircraft to outsource our flying to, reimbursing officers for income tax liabilities, $1,000 stipends to pay the lawn boy, inability to create a national seniority list or some form of consistent recognition of longevity of ALPA membership, fighting against the 1,500 hour flight time requirement for 121 carriers, fighting for raising the retirement age to 65 contrary to the membership mandate) .....I'm sure I forgot a few.
If there were a way to break away from all of that and still stay in ALPA, then we might consider this type of action. I think these macro-level changes are highly unlikely to impossible, so we won't invest in prolonging it. While we won't support the elections, neither will we interfere in them. I am giving ALPA EVERY chance to make the changes that are necessary without disrupting daily business. I am withholding recommending resigning ALPA membership and removing dues check off as well unless some significant reason to do so is forced on us. We are going to get this done and it will be with minimal disruption.
As always, I am appreciative of your hard work, but baffled by your adhesion to ALPA. I am curious if you are satisfied with the current level of the MCF and the measures taken to fund it in light of all the lawsuits ALPA has in progress. Are you okay with Jalmer Johnson taking his ALPA National retirement now, before these lawsuits hit, but then immediately taking a consulting job with ALPA and enjoying double-dipping for as long as ALPA stays afloat?
I hope you will join us soon. We need you.
DPA
06-27-2013, 07:19 PM
#7649
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Well, DPA says they have 5,400 cards. Half the pilot group. Now they'll focus on renewing the expired ones while hoping for new members. Amazing.
Couldn't have happened without the continuing behavior of ALPA national. Fingers crossed that we're on our way to separation from Mr. Moak's organization.
Carl
Couldn't have happened without the continuing behavior of ALPA national. Fingers crossed that we're on our way to separation from Mr. Moak's organization.
Carl
06-27-2013, 07:29 PM
#7650
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Well, DPA says they have 5,400 cards. Half the pilot group. Now they'll focus on renewing the expired ones while hoping for new members. Amazing.
Couldn't have happened without the continuing behavior of ALPA national. Fingers crossed that we're on our way to separation from Mr. Moak's organization.
Carl
Couldn't have happened without the continuing behavior of ALPA national. Fingers crossed that we're on our way to separation from Mr. Moak's organization.
Carl
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