Delta Pilots Association
02-14-2012, 05:47 AM
#7512
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Well if that doesn't perfectly describe the purposefully ill-informed mud slinger, I don't know what does.
This is no surprise since you don't care enough to research.
We did make a mistake by caving in to management's fear campaign. They said without this ability to better feed the hubs, our company couldn't compete against the AMR/American Eagle juggernaut and our company would fail. Then they said if we allowed it, the mainline would grow because we would be feeding more traffic to our hubs. Then they said if we allowed it, they would "give us" a no-furlough clause to protect our junior pilots in case things didn't go as planned.
They lied, and we were idiots for believing them and caving in to fear. But another fact of this history is that it wasn't done by senior pilots alone. These contracts were voted in by vast majorities (including younger pilots) who were enticed by a no-furlough clause.
Does it even matter to you that I've never said any such thing? Having only four years to go has nothing to do with why I care about scope. I care about it now every bit as much as I did when I had 32 years to go. You would know that...if you cared enough to research. Instead, you just throw mud.
I voted against the first one because I didn't buy the threat of AMR/American Eagle argument, and I've voted against every subsequent one. I was in the minority though. Amazing how you can know a person's voting record without caring enough to do research.
I couldn't care less about what others think of my credibility. Not giving a **** about what others think of you personally is one of the great things about getting old.
And I do to the best of my ability. Lately though, I've been getting sold on the DPA every time I commute on a trip. Usually by a junior guy. Before I tell them I'm already a member, I ask them why I should join. In almost every case they say Scope is the main reason. Great stuff.
Closet scope hawk? My many public posts in writing about the importance of scope makes me a closet scope hawk? Do you even understand the meaning of words?
Nobody "made" me do anything because I voted NO on every one of these. And I've done so since the late 80's...not since the 70's because this didn't exist in the 70's. Again, you would know that if you weren't so against research.
Happy mud slinging sparky.
Carl
Your generation has royally [deleted] scope during your tenure. Every group, including yours, has traded the future of younger pilots for gains during their own career span. It's nothing new. It costs nothing for you to claim you're different, but the flip side of that is that it carries no particular credibility.
They lied, and we were idiots for believing them and caving in to fear. But another fact of this history is that it wasn't done by senior pilots alone. These contracts were voted in by vast majorities (including younger pilots) who were enticed by a no-furlough clause.
And I do to the best of my ability. Lately though, I've been getting sold on the DPA every time I commute on a trip. Usually by a junior guy. Before I tell them I'm already a member, I ask them why I should join. In almost every case they say Scope is the main reason. Great stuff.
Nobody "made" me do anything because I voted NO on every one of these. And I've done so since the late 80's...not since the 70's because this didn't exist in the 70's. Again, you would know that if you weren't so against research.
Happy mud slinging sparky.
Carl
02-14-2012, 05:51 AM
#7513
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Sink;
I'm a little fuzzy, usually you are a voice of reason and honesty, but for the last couple days, you have changed and actually been pretty short with people. I am going to assume that you got up on the wrong side of the bed.
This thread is not a Carl love fest. The fact that he is a 747 Capt does not make him either a default leader or anything more than just another pilot with a viewpoint. The time may come when you have seen enough of the shenanigans and you also lose faith in something (like ALPA).
I dont know how old you are, but I can tell you as you get older, you dont realize it. You may have more aches, but in your brain you are still 25. If Carl is 56, he probably looks in the mirror and thinks geez who's that old guy.
When the industry started going down hill, he was much younger and still had a front row seat. He lived through it all. You probably have read up on it, but didn't live it. Noone has labled Carl as altruistic, but he makes some good points depending upon your viewpoint.
To me, the most salient is that ALPA is a vendor with whom we have a business relationship. Many believe that vendor is underperforming and also unable to perform. YMMV.
Try to get a good nights sleep and think happy thoughts.
I'm a little fuzzy, usually you are a voice of reason and honesty, but for the last couple days, you have changed and actually been pretty short with people. I am going to assume that you got up on the wrong side of the bed.
This thread is not a Carl love fest. The fact that he is a 747 Capt does not make him either a default leader or anything more than just another pilot with a viewpoint. The time may come when you have seen enough of the shenanigans and you also lose faith in something (like ALPA).
I dont know how old you are, but I can tell you as you get older, you dont realize it. You may have more aches, but in your brain you are still 25. If Carl is 56, he probably looks in the mirror and thinks geez who's that old guy.
When the industry started going down hill, he was much younger and still had a front row seat. He lived through it all. You probably have read up on it, but didn't live it. Noone has labled Carl as altruistic, but he makes some good points depending upon your viewpoint.
To me, the most salient is that ALPA is a vendor with whom we have a business relationship. Many believe that vendor is underperforming and also unable to perform. YMMV.
Try to get a good nights sleep and think happy thoughts.
Carl
02-14-2012, 06:06 AM
#7514
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Geez. How specific do I have to be with you? 
Okay... I'll rephrase. Calling someone a liar when there is no proof the person is intentionally saying something they know to be untrue, is an attack. Better?
Without getting too political here... You remember, "Bush lied, people died?" I never understood that one, since his decisions were made based on the same intelligence and info that virtually everyone agreed on at the time. Then when it turned out to be faulty intelligence, suddenly he's a "liar." I'd call that a personal attack rather than a legitimate criticism, wouldn't you?
Okay... I'll rephrase. Calling someone a liar when there is no proof the person is intentionally saying something they know to be untrue, is an attack. Better?
Without getting too political here... You remember, "Bush lied, people died?" I never understood that one, since his decisions were made based on the same intelligence and info that virtually everyone agreed on at the time. Then when it turned out to be faulty intelligence, suddenly he's a "liar." I'd call that a personal attack rather than a legitimate criticism, wouldn't you?
02-14-2012, 06:07 AM
#7515
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
But don't let easily found facts get in the way of you spouting the DALPA talking points.
Carl
02-14-2012, 06:30 AM
#7516
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Geez. How specific do I have to be with you?
Okay... I'll rephrase. Calling someone a liar when there is no proof the person is intentionally saying something they know to be untrue, is an attack. Better?
Without getting too political here... You remember, "Bush lied, people died?" I never understood that one, since his decisions were made based on the same intelligence and info that virtually everyone agreed on at the time. Then when it turned out to be faulty intelligence, suddenly he's a "liar." I'd call that a personal attack rather than a legitimate criticism, wouldn't you?
Okay... I'll rephrase. Calling someone a liar when there is no proof the person is intentionally saying something they know to be untrue, is an attack. Better?
Without getting too political here... You remember, "Bush lied, people died?" I never understood that one, since his decisions were made based on the same intelligence and info that virtually everyone agreed on at the time. Then when it turned out to be faulty intelligence, suddenly he's a "liar." I'd call that a personal attack rather than a legitimate criticism, wouldn't you?
Carl
03-03-2012, 06:16 AM
#7519
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,037
In the DPA / ALPA debate, my response is more and more becoming "I need to get my logbook updated and re-study how to calculate track errors, relative bearings and find the right magnetic heading from a list of four choices ..." Do you know who has two thumbs and thinks Hank Halter may have made a good decision?
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 03-03-2012 at 08:59 AM.
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