DAL 88 Driver

Exactly. Standard DALPA tactic. Throw mud at anyone who disagrees with you and try to discredit the individual rather than the individual's argument. It's the same kind of crap that goes on in Washington D.C. these days and is a big part of the reason Congress has such a low approval rating. And if DALPA keeps this up (especially if we find out our opener was weak) then DALPA's "approval rating" is going to drop to fatal levels.

Sink r8

You're correct, Carl: I don't care enough to research. Maybe you've been using Scope for years before DPA.

It's just that I don't buy this "gee, I'm just trying to pass along what I was tought in the 70's" gushing routine. Your generation has royally [deleted] scope during your tenure. Every group, including yours, has traded the future of younger pilots for gains during their own career span. It's nothing new. It costs nothing for you to claim you're different, but the flip side of that is that it carries no particular credibility.

With that said, I don't doubt the ability of any 747 Captain to understand the dynamics of Scope, and the pitfalls of outsourcing. Surely, when you say you care because you've only got four years to go, you're disingenuous, but not stupid. You know that we, well... you, actually, have consistently voted for contracts that absolutely destroyed Scope.

You need to make the argument that you're different, and you didn't vote for Scope erosion, because you'd like some credibility when it comes to the subject of this thread, which is the DPA. If you're selling DPA, sell DPA. Don't try to sell DPA as a 747 Captain that is really, deep-down, a closet Scope Hawk, and it's the other guys that made you do it since the 1970's.

It doesn't really work.

Sink r8

When irony is breathtaking.

Again.

DAL 88 Driver

I never said I was perfect. But mud slinging is not my SOP. Sadly, it is the SOP with many of the DALPA officials and aficionados.

You seem to be on a roll. Keep slinging that mud, Sink r8.

Sink r8

No, you're right, you weren't attacking the messenger at all. Show me the part were you were taking issue with my logic, just in case.

My argument is this: I have been overcome by a strange case of the "bull$hits" when faced with the proposition that Carl should be up for a Scope Hawk award, considering the record of his generation, and his position within the airline. Maybe it's because he was giving us an advance preview of his acceptance speech, with the "I'm just doing what the old guys tought me in the 70's" (but never actually applied) routine. It just struck me as weird.

If you had told me a junior DC-9 Captain that's moving all over creation to avoid the right seat was concerned about RJ's, and HE was a Scope Hawk, that would have seen logical, and I wouldn't have balked.

Have a nice evening.

DAL 88 Driver

You sure are making a bunch of assumptions. Could it be that not every person fits neatly into your world of stereotypes? Carl doesn't need me to defend him... but I will say that he has been extremely consistent over the years in the views he expresses here.

And thanks for the little jab about "avoiding the right seat." What a bunch of crap. Did it ever occur to you that, at age 52 and having lost the retirement I was counting on half way through my career, I might need to make as much money as possible to rebuild that retirement? Do you think I've enjoyed being on reserve for the past 5 years? And on a side note, have you seen me complaining about it?

Keep slinging that mud, Sink r8.

Sink r8

Working backwards...

1) You're opposed to jabs, but this "ALPA official or afficionado" thing is fine?

2) I'm not personally attacking Carl, I'm attacking the proposition that he is credible as a Scope Hawk. Specifically, I'm asking the people that consider the myth of Carl as a Scope Hawk whether that squares with their observations about pilot behavior for that demographic. When it comes to stereotypes, one has to be careful. And yet, fairness doesn't preclude judgment.

3) I'm not arguing consistency: Carl has been riding the Scope issue consistently.

4) I am making assumptions, and observations. I don't think I hold exclusivity on stereotypes, by the way (see #1, above).

5) As a 52-yo, having lost your retirement, you're behaving in exactly in the manner that most people in your demographic group might act. You used the argument yourself to explain how your predicament justifies your outlook. It could be argued you're stereotyping yourself. And why not? Your behavior is only rational.

scambo1

Sink;

I'm a little fuzzy, usually you are a voice of reason and honesty, but for the last couple days, you have changed and actually been pretty short with people. I am going to assume that you got up on the wrong side of the bed.

This thread is not a Carl love fest. The fact that he is a 747 Capt does not make him either a default leader or anything more than just another pilot with a viewpoint. The time may come when you have seen enough of the shenanigans and you also lose faith in something (like ALPA).

I dont know how old you are, but I can tell you as you get older, you dont realize it. You may have more aches, but in your brain you are still 25. If Carl is 56, he probably looks in the mirror and thinks geez who's that old guy.

When the industry started going down hill, he was much younger and still had a front row seat. He lived through it all. You probably have read up on it, but didn't live it. Noone has labled Carl as altruistic, but he makes some good points depending upon your viewpoint.

To me, the most salient is that ALPA is a vendor with whom we have a business relationship. Many believe that vendor is underperforming and also unable to perform. YMMV.

Try to get a good nights sleep and think happy thoughts.

DAL 88 Driver

I guess I'm not quite following you. What exactly is wrong with the use of these terms and how is that a "jab?"

a·fi·ci·o·na·do/əˌfiSH(ē)əˈnädō/
Noun:
A person who is very knowledgeable and enthusiastic about an activity, subject, or pastime.

of·fi·cial/əˈfiSHəl/
Noun:
A person holding public office or having official duties, esp. as a representative of an organization or government department.


Oh. I get it. Carl has talked extensively (and consistently) about the importance of scope. You say it is a "myth" that Carl is a scope hawk. Therefore, you are saying that Carl is being dishonest in what he posts. But calling someone a liar isn't a personal attack? Riiiiight.

See #2 above.

I said that mud slinging is SOP for many (not all) DALPA officials and aficionados. I stand by that statement. Certainly, it happens on both sides. But I've personally witnessed it more often (especially being initiated) by those guys than by any other identifiable group. Happens all the time.

I don't know what you think I said about my "predicament" justifying my "outlook." All I said was that I need to make as much money as possible to keep on track with rebuilding my retirement. In order to do that with our current pay rates providing a 40% lower standard of living than they did prior to LOA46, I have to make some sacrifices in terms of quality of life. So be it. I'm just doing what I have to do, based on my priorities. Others that are in the exact same boat as I am in may have different priorities and therefore make different decisions.

bigbusdriver

So what happened four years ago to make you come on here and become a member? Merger perhaps? SLI? Red Book burning party? Then the DPA floats their first trial balloon three years ago this week on APC and on FI where they have existed in name long before they existed on paper. The cast of characters on both of forums hasn't changed in over the three long years now. That was all still months before SOC and deep in the transition. Continued anger about the merger or coincidence? My money is on you being angry and that coincidences don't exist.

Sounds like someone has a case of the mergers.