Carl Spackler

Reread Bar's post and you'll see nothing that would indicate speculation, yet it was all speculation. Read my response and you'll see that I used phrases like: "likely will" and "may not" and other phrases that clearly indicate that it is my personal opinion. That's how it should work here clamp. When it doesn't, I throw a flag.

Carl

tomgoodman

Don't rule out leaks, followed by accusations and denials.

Rather B Fishin

Yep it sure is.

Equity in a new company - check
Pay raises outside of section 6 negotiations - check
Increased 401K contributions outside of section 6 negotiations - check
Improved contractual language (LOA's, SOT's) outside of section 6 negotiations- check
No furloughs during one of the worst economic periods - check

Now I have no doubt you'll post a list of all their failures. That's fine, I appreciate an open and honest debate. To post "Their record is absolutely clear" insinuating that DALPA has been a failure is completely disingenuous and proves your complete hatred of anything ALPA.

scambo1

Every employee got equity in a new company.
Non contract employees just got payraises.
Some employees took a hit on their 401k contributions (not just junior FNWA) DAL FOs too - reduced from 13% if memory serves.
No furloughs was a management decision.

Bucking Bar

Scambo,

Delta needed our help with our scope to pull the merger off. ALPA did leverage our cooperation and did so in a way that avoided furloughs. Management did look at furloughing pilots. Then the economy, fuel prices, North Atlantic flying, and Japan's earthquake made a bad situation even worse. If you look around the airline, other employee groups have been cut. The provisions ALPA negotiated kept our junior guys on the job.

This is a course reversal for me. I thought we would have a furlough based on the numbers. Glad I was wrong and our MEC's confidence in what they negotiated was right.

Our next task is Contract 2012. I want to help you & Carl get a better contract. Will you guys help me? We need to stand together.

Bucking Bar

Carl,

ALPA does not want management negotiating in public. You and I do not want to hear what the New York Times Op Ed page says about our earnings (I am sure we are paid too much in their opinion). At the same time, Delta does not want speculative news that drives down our shareholder's equity. These negotiations are most productive with a certain decorum which allows respect without folks having to react to lynch mobs (whether it be shareholders, or pilots).

What you describe is exactly the mechanism my concerns take. Management isn't going to negotiate in good faith unless they have confidence that the pilots' bargaining agent can do the deal.

The history of labor groups that have voted down contracts is a sad one. Most pilots are vaguely aware of this fact, or have had friends who have been down that road. That's why even bad TA's usually pass. ( ... and I've voted against everything since I've been here ... so I do understand your position)

I want to help you get the best TA possible. Will you help me? I'd like us to hold this representational battle in abeyance while our unity is needed.

Rather B Fishin

Must be nice to live in an such a black and white world as you and Carl. RA must be such a benevolent and giving CEO.
Did every employee get the same equity as the pilot group?
Last I checked non contract employees are not bound by a working agreement.
Your memory doesn't serve. DPSP = 2%, DC Plan as of 1/1/12 = 12%. That's 14% total. What was the amount prior to the merger? Yeah, less.
Once again what a wonderful company we work for to so charitably carry excess pilots during the capacity reduction. Nahhh couldn't be cause DALPA had some leverage.

scambo1

Bar;

I dont have a problem with politicians (alpa) taking credit for something - even if they didn't actually do it. That is what politicians do.

The decision not to furlough rests squarely on the shoulders of, and can only be credited to, 1 former furloughee who, through his ability to convince fltops not to furlough, was successful in keeping people off the streets - inits BW - thank him next time you see him.

More Bacon

More amenable? Seriously? HELL no.

Less experienced? Well, certainly less experienced on how to sandbag, roll over, and ingratiate oneself to the company to maintain their cushy bennies like ALPA drops, stipends, etc, etc.--all of which DALPA has a long history of engaging in.

Less capable? Dude...really? With 100% of Delta pilots' dues at the disposal of Delta pilots (and not getting p!ssed away by national), we can afford (and will avail ourselves of) the very best negotiating mercenaries money can buy to bash some company skulls at the table.

scambo1

Every employee got the same percentage equity based upon pay.
Prior to the merger DAL FOs were at 13% - after the merger this went down.

I left out the working agreement part because obviously, non-contract employees don't have one.

ALPA does some good things. You are trying to paint them as doing things that weren't also done for non-contract employees.