Bucking Bar

Lets look at the effect of that quote.

In around 70 days we will exchange openers for Contract 2012. Management will sit down with THE EXCLUSIVE Bargaining Agent who speaks for all Delta pilots. We want x, they offer y. Negotiations begin.

Management knows that every offer raises the floor. The floor will remain raised through mediation and if a new bargaining agent comes in, it is unlikely the floor will be lowered.

Yet there is some uncertainty in management's mind. Does the ALPA Rep really represent Delta pilots, or is there some chance he'll be replaced with a more amenable, less experienced, or less capable Agent? Is there any chance Delta could enjoy the cost savings which keeps US Air alive and profitable by paying wages which are lower than some DCI partners are paying to fly RJ's?

It is submitted to those on this board that the DPA push now does nothing but cause management to lack confidence in the legitimacy of the man sitting across the table from them. This uncertainty is going to stall our negotiations and reduce what might be achieved.

At one time the DPA honorably stated an intent to not interfere in contract 2012. IMHO the DPA failed to get what it needed on its time line and now the DPA's delay will cause all Delta pilots harm.

I think the Delta pilots have shown remarkable tolerance for this group running around taking figurative machetes to our unity. While the DPA's legal rights will be respected, there will be a time when the majority of Delta pilots tire of stuff and in my mind that time is now. We've got a contract to get done. We need to speak with one voice. (that's my opinion, but I don't think I'm alone in this concern for our future)

cactiboss

Aren't some of dpa cards expiring by now? If so it will be hard just to keep the numbers you had. Also the seeham law firm? you boys better study the real story there, usapa just got parked with seehams professional negotiator at the table. I used to dislike Alpa then I got introduced into the better union created with the help of Seeham (usapa), and alpa started looking like pilot representational heaven.

Carl Spackler

OK, that's never a good thing.

Uh, don't look now but you've just assumed facts not known to be true.

Carl

Bucking Bar

It wasn't like that. You see, ALPA issues iPhones on that crappy AT&T network.

ALPA called the Secretary and said "ship those documents to the Feds"

She heard, "Rip those documents to shreds"

It was just another case of bad cellular.

Bucking Bar

Well, isn't that easy

Carl, don't misquote me.

Carl Spackler

Wow. An amazing amount of speculation here. First of all, there may be NO offers at all...thus the floor doesn't move. Second, even IF the DPA gets the additional 2,000 cards needed for a vote, it likely won't happen before openers are exchanged. Since DALPA has said in writing that we will NOT see the opener after it is exchanged, we members will not know anything until we see a tentative agreement. If the TA is extremely weak (as I fully expect), it will be at THAT TIME when DPA would most likely hold the vote, and win. However, a new bargaining agent won't allow us to change our opening position, thus the new bargaining agent would only be able to fight and renegotiate for the best SECOND TA, after the first one is voted down.

The continuation of the DPA push is absolutely required because DALPA cannot be trusted to negotiate hard for us. Their record is absolutely clear. The threat of DPA will be holding a gun to the heads of DALPA. If DALPA fails, DPA will finish the job. Then DPA will spend most all of its efforts trying to repair the damage of DALPA's weak opener, by building an effective strategy for the NEXT section 6. Once DALPA delivers the weak opener in this section 6, this section 6 is probably doomed.

Carl

Carl Spackler

You bet there is. Management is terrified that their docile known quantity (DALPA) might not be on the same side of the negotiating table anymore. That's why management fights so hard to keep anything DPA off the property.

It's impossible to be more amenable than DALPA, so no worries there. As far as experience, I guess you should be concerned about what kind of experience (record) you have in our current bargaining agent. Now to capability, how do you like the authors of our section 1? How do you like those same authors saying that the language is so weak, they cannot defend it against the RAH violation? Now THAT'S capability right there.

That's an understandable submission from someone whose mind is made up. My submission is that the DPA will cause DALPA to understand they can no longer sit on the same side of the negotiating table as management. If you're really concerned about DALPA's legitimacy being questioned by management, I have a fix for you. Have DALPA call for an election right now. You know, a confidence vote prior to exchanging openers. With only 4,200 DPA cards, DALPA's got nothing to worry about...right?

Carl

80ktsClamp

For someone accusing someone of an amazing amount of speculation, you sure filled your post chock full with an amazing amount of speculation. In fact, I'm amazed at your amazing amount of speculation.

Carl Spackler

Far more serious harm will befall Delta pilots if there is no backup plan when the horrifically weak TA is seen by the pilots. There has to be a plan B to respond when the MEC says: "You need to swallow hard and vote for this guys. This is as good as it's going to get. This is management's last, best offer. If you vote this down, your MEC and negotiators will resign and we'll have to start over from square one. Do you really want that? We'll get 'em good next time."

What a ridiculous distortion of reality. Delta pilots are showing remarkable activism to replace the entrenched DALPA...not tolerance. Your characterization of the democratic process as "taking machetes to our unity" is hyperbole at its worst.

Really? Respected by calling it "taking machetes to our unity?"

Fine. If you think you're part of the majority who are tired of this democracy "stuff", then do something about it. I look forward to it.

We are speaking with one voice. Sadly, that voice will be DALPA. But when the TA is released, that voice may well change.

Carl

Carl Spackler

As always, I quoted you EXACTLY as you wrote. If you don't like what you've posted, then edit it.

Carl