Delta Pilots Association
12-21-2011, 05:47 PM
#7091
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Wow, struck a nerve there didn't I. You can always tell who is losing the argument by how many insults they throw. Right, if you can't think, then insult. I see Carl has taught you well. Your next step is to say "You don't know what you are talking about" and then hurl some more insults.
We all wish we had this magic wand. I can tell that the magic wand does not exist sitting behind a keyboard spewing out hate and fear with populist diatribes. It does not exist in the simplistic solutions offered by the standard keyboard kowboys. It exists only in work. Grinding, day to day, stomp on one problem and six more appear, work. Work, work, work. That is what is takes. Alas, we can see that even when motivated by their own website, the DPA folks can't even do any work. Sit behind a keyboard and generate hate and fear. Yeah, that's a lot of work.
Carl
12-21-2011, 05:53 PM
#7092
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Of course I see some positive things in DALPA. I think there are a ton of hard-working volunteers on various committees who are doing great stuff to help you and I. I am very grateful for their service. Guys will do the same, whether ALPA or DPA is our agent.
My issue is with the compensated DALPA folks who get a free trip to Herndon, get wined and dined (on our dime), baptized into the system. Do you know what those guys are briefed on, what they're promised (and what they promise in return) and how much they stand to lose if they get bounced? That's in addition to the "special" relationship they have with the company.
My issue is with the compensated DALPA folks who get a free trip to Herndon, get wined and dined (on our dime), baptized into the system. Do you know what those guys are briefed on, what they're promised (and what they promise in return) and how much they stand to lose if they get bounced? That's in addition to the "special" relationship they have with the company.
12-21-2011, 05:58 PM
#7093
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
I'll listen to DALPA if they pledge to never again accept FPL from the company, or waste our dues money on cushy boondoggles--and disclose how they spend every cent of our dues money. Oh, and agree to never send another cent to national....ever.
Until then, I'm not interested.
Until then, I'm not interested.
12-21-2011, 06:01 PM
#7094
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
We've been "into it." I've stated my minimum opening before. But since you've apparently forgotten, here's a review:
Pay - 2004 (pre-paycut) rates + COLA for an opener. Or some combination of rates and work rules that results in a comparable W2 to 2004 + COLA. I would consider voting YES to an agreement that gets us SWA W2's +. As a review, that would be over $230K for a domestic narrowbody Captain and over $140k for a domestic narrowbody F/O.
Scope - Do not renew the DCI agreements as they expire. All flying of Delta passengers in aircraft painted with the Delta logo and in Delta colors must be done by Delta seniority list pilots. I would accept as a minimum all aircraft (jet or turboprop) with greater than 50 seats must be flown by Delta seniority list pilots.
Both of these items are crucial in order to get a YES vote from me.
As far as what it would take for you to support DPA. Why don't you email TC and ask him for your "no SLI dispute promise" letter? I have no doubt he would be willing to answer that question to your satisfaction. And if you're not willing to take this step after everything you've written about that issue... well, I don't have a lot of sympathy for your concern. Let us know what you find out.
Pay - 2004 (pre-paycut) rates + COLA for an opener. Or some combination of rates and work rules that results in a comparable W2 to 2004 + COLA. I would consider voting YES to an agreement that gets us SWA W2's +. As a review, that would be over $230K for a domestic narrowbody Captain and over $140k for a domestic narrowbody F/O.
Scope - Do not renew the DCI agreements as they expire. All flying of Delta passengers in aircraft painted with the Delta logo and in Delta colors must be done by Delta seniority list pilots. I would accept as a minimum all aircraft (jet or turboprop) with greater than 50 seats must be flown by Delta seniority list pilots.
Both of these items are crucial in order to get a YES vote from me.
As far as what it would take for you to support DPA. Why don't you email TC and ask him for your "no SLI dispute promise" letter? I have no doubt he would be willing to answer that question to your satisfaction. And if you're not willing to take this step after everything you've written about that issue... well, I don't have a lot of sympathy for your concern. Let us know what you find out.
PM me Tim's email address and I will do just what you suggest..
12-21-2011, 06:06 PM
#7095
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
ALPA legal representing us and the pilots of our direct regional competitors is the very definition of a conflict of interest. ALPA legal could be sued and even be convicted of a crime were it not for one thing: ALPA legal's defense would be that all ALPA members already know that they represent all sides, and as such, it amounts to "informed consent". With the claim of informed consent, a clear conflict of interest can be allowed in certain cases.
There is no question that ALPA legal operates in a conflict of interest. But in this case of informed consent, this conflict of interest is probably legal.
Carl
12-21-2011, 06:10 PM
#7096
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Will do.
12-21-2011, 06:13 PM
#7097
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
So let's assume that these other carriers change their tune at the drop of the hat. What is the substance of the Ford-Cooksey settlement. Let's put it in other terms to show perspective. Our contract is opening in April. Would you accept these terms to determine our future compensation?
It is a nothing burger.
- Delta management forms a Compensation Committee to discuss our compensation. Delta pilots are invited to the committee to meet and confer.
- If no consensus is reached, then Delta management gets to set our compensation to whatever level they feel is appropriate.
- If the Delta pilots don't like what management decides, then they can appeal to the Delta Board of Directors
It is a nothing burger.
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3. Prior to commencement of any bargaining for any ALPA pilot group within a mainline/express system, the applicable Negotiating Committee will meet with the Negotiating Committees of other ALPA pilot groups in the mainline/express system to review opening scope proposals and how they advance ALPA's scope goals and guidelines. The committees will work with each other to develop a consensus on proposals; if, however, they are unable to do so, subsection 3a below will apply:
a. Following consultation as specified above, and prior to submission of the scope proposal to the airline, the applicable negotiating committee will report to the Scope Subcommittee that ALPA pilot groups have consulted with one another and have or have not reached consensus that the planned scope proposal meets ALPA's scope goals and guidelines; if the latter, Negotiating Committees of other ALPA pilot groups within the system can submit statements of agreement or disagreement to the Scope Subcommittee, which can recommend changes following consultations with the Negotiating Committees involved.
b. The applicable Negotiating Committees and ALPA pilot groups within the mainline/express system will develop in conjuction with the opening proposal agreed reporting benchmarks with respect to developments in on-going scope negotiations which will require that the Negotiating Committee provide updates on the status of scope negotiations to the Scope Subcommittee. In the absesnce of consensual agreements concerning benchmarks, the Scope Subcommittee will determine reporting benchmarks.
4. During the period that final approval of a collective bargaining agreement is subject to Presidential review under the Constitution and By-Laws, MEC designated representatives of all ALPA pilot groups within the mainline/express system may submit comments prior to the Presidential signature concerning conformity of negotiated scope provisions with recommendations of the Scope Subcommittee and Association policy.
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Carl
12-21-2011, 06:13 PM
#7098
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
You've proved nothing but your ability to state your blatantly false opinion.
ALPA legal representing us and the pilots of our direct regional competitors is the very definition of a conflict of interest. ALPA legal could be sued and even be convicted of a crime were it not for one thing: ALPA legal's defense would be that all ALPA members already know that they represent all sides, and as such, it amounts to "informed consent". With the claim of informed consent, a clear conflict of interest can be allowed in certain cases.
There is no question that ALPA legal operates in a conflict of interest. But in this case of informed consent, this conflict of interest is probably legal.
Carl
ALPA legal representing us and the pilots of our direct regional competitors is the very definition of a conflict of interest. ALPA legal could be sued and even be convicted of a crime were it not for one thing: ALPA legal's defense would be that all ALPA members already know that they represent all sides, and as such, it amounts to "informed consent". With the claim of informed consent, a clear conflict of interest can be allowed in certain cases.
There is no question that ALPA legal operates in a conflict of interest. But in this case of informed consent, this conflict of interest is probably legal.
Carl
12-21-2011, 06:27 PM
#7099
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Ah, that's a distinction that I meant to make in my earlier post. There's a difference between being unhappy with someone because they tried and failed and being unhappy with someone because they didn't even try. I'm going to have to see DALPA trying (sincerely trying) to achieve restoration of our careers. If they really put an obvious all-out effort into achieving this objective (which they are going to have to first define and communicate... duh), then I won't be mad at them if they fail for reasons beyond their control. Now, if they keep going like they've been going... which is refusing to advocate restoration and even arguing against it... then yes you are right I will be unhappy with them. But to say I'm not going to be happy with ALPA no matter what... That's just not a fair or true statement.
Will do.
Will do.
12-21-2011, 06:27 PM
#7100
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
What you have done with your DPA is take a situation where pilots are stressed and uncertain and exploited that using fear. We exit bankruptcy, we have a merger, new bases, new procedures, new aircraft, displacements along with aircraft moving around the system. Pilots are uprooted by change and uncertainty.
So, like any good populist you come along to exploit the fear. You put up a website. You scour the forums and find any topic that creates anxiety in pilots. You create this magic entity "DPA" that promises to magically fix every problem in the world. How. "By being for Delta pilots only."
So, like any good populist you come along to exploit the fear. You put up a website. You scour the forums and find any topic that creates anxiety in pilots. You create this magic entity "DPA" that promises to magically fix every problem in the world. How. "By being for Delta pilots only."
Until you can admit to yourself that ALPA has failed us in many ways, you'll never understand why 4,100 plus highly educated pilot peers of yours could have been swayed away from such a successful union like ALPA.
Carl
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