Delta Pilots Association
12-21-2011, 03:01 PM
#7071
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,357
Ok, let's play this out. DPA somehow motivates 100% of the Delta Pilots to go it alone in the next 3 months (or before openers). It's a pipe dream, I know, but just pretend for discussion.
What's the next step?
DPA walks into negotiations and throws down; "I want full restoration to C2K rates, adjusted for inflation, and we want 5% per year going forward, and we want...(insert list of about 100 other things here).
OK, so Richard picks up the phone and makes a call;
"Hello, NMB? We have these guys here who want to double our operating costs...No, it's not the APA, it's the DPA!"
NMB on other end of phone to the President of the ATA, our own King Ricard,
"Tell them we'll get right back to them...in about 5 years."
OK, then what?
I'm no DALPA cheerleader, I've voted against most of the concessionary T/A's they have brought us, but I've also volunteered (fo'free, no trip drops!) to help out on a lot of committees over the years. The single most frustrating thing for me to deal with is all the other appathetic pilots who can't find the time to stay informed or get involved. The Silent Majority, and the next most frustrating thing is, the RLA.
How is any new bargaining agent going to change those two things?
What's the next step?
DPA walks into negotiations and throws down; "I want full restoration to C2K rates, adjusted for inflation, and we want 5% per year going forward, and we want...(insert list of about 100 other things here).
OK, so Richard picks up the phone and makes a call;
"Hello, NMB? We have these guys here who want to double our operating costs...No, it's not the APA, it's the DPA!"
NMB on other end of phone to the President of the ATA, our own King Ricard,
"Tell them we'll get right back to them...in about 5 years."
OK, then what?
I'm no DALPA cheerleader, I've voted against most of the concessionary T/A's they have brought us, but I've also volunteered (fo'free, no trip drops!) to help out on a lot of committees over the years. The single most frustrating thing for me to deal with is all the other appathetic pilots who can't find the time to stay informed or get involved. The Silent Majority, and the next most frustrating thing is, the RLA.
How is any new bargaining agent going to change those two things?
Let's make it sound like no matter what DPA COULD do it will always be absurd. If that portrayal of the DPA doesn't taint them enough then lets start the "DPA is actually a secret society set up to overturn the seniority list" rumor all over again.
For the record, most of the ALPA loyalists here will find every reason in the book to discredit the SWA plus concept all the while offering no better negotiating strategy to obtain substantial gains. You will be hard pressed to find a Delta pilot who actually fly's the line say he wouldn't take SWAPA's domestic work rules (in their entirety including W2 building pay and average days at home per month) over what we have now at Delta. Rather, let's discount the SWA plus concept as it was spawned by those evil DPA aligned revolutionists. Bah!
12-21-2011, 04:08 PM
#7072
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Here's some interesting food for thought that I found along these lines:
Conflicts of interest related to the practice of law
In the legal profession, the duty of loyalty owed to a client prohibits an attorney (or a law firm) from representing any other party with interests adverse to those of a current client. The few exceptions to this rule require informed written consent from all affected clients. In some circumstances, a conflict of interest can never be waived by a client. In perhaps the most common example encountered by the general public, the same firm should not represent both parties in a divorce or child custody case.
A prohibited or undisclosed representation involving a conflict of interest can subject an attorney to disciplinary hearings, the denial or disgorgement of legal fees, or in some cases (such as the failure to make mandatory disclosure), criminal proceedings. In the United States, a law firm usually cannot represent a client if its interests conflict with those of another client, even if they have separate lawyers within the firm, unless (in some jurisdictions) the lawyer is segregated from the rest of the firm for the duration of the conflict. Law firms often employ software in conjunction with their case management and accounting systems in order to meet their duties to monitor their conflict of interest exposure and to assist in obtaining waivers.
12-21-2011, 05:20 PM
#7073
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 107
Occupy;
I am a DPA supporter and active. Most pilots on this board GET the fact that we send a bunch of money to DC. Most pilots GET the fact that some of that money funds smaller regional collective bargaining efforts. Most pilots GET the fact that national is a bloated, self serving beaurocracy.
There are a couple of things I dont get:
1. Why you seem to be so hostile to everyone. All that will result in is you getting blocked.
2. My opinion only, as a realist, DALPA is going to get a shot at section 6 round 1, not DPA: DPA really needs to rethink the all or nothing strategy leading up to section 6 and marshall the troops to do some LEC and MEC policy implementation...or the whole movement will be moot. Think about it..
I am a DPA supporter and active. Most pilots on this board GET the fact that we send a bunch of money to DC. Most pilots GET the fact that some of that money funds smaller regional collective bargaining efforts. Most pilots GET the fact that national is a bloated, self serving beaurocracy.
There are a couple of things I dont get:
1. Why you seem to be so hostile to everyone. All that will result in is you getting blocked.
2. My opinion only, as a realist, DALPA is going to get a shot at section 6 round 1, not DPA: DPA really needs to rethink the all or nothing strategy leading up to section 6 and marshall the troops to do some LEC and MEC policy implementation...or the whole movement will be moot. Think about it..
ALPA's dogmatic, national-centric setup is rotten to the core. We agree that what they actually can do, vs. what they try to convince us they can do, is completely at odds with reality. We've seen the obstructionism, insularity, and utter non-transparency as they close ranks. They'll hold tight to their fiefdom at all costs.
We don't have time to try to change a system rigged completely against us. It's like playing solitaire with a deck of 40 cards. Sure, you can try again, and convince yourself "it's sure to work this time," but your chances of success are nil.
Last edited by OccupyRestSeat; 12-21-2011 at 05:40 PM.
12-21-2011, 05:29 PM
#7074
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,756
I know you were trying to make a point by painting restoration demands "and 100 other things" as ridiculous. Lets not frame an argument of "SWA plus" that just might sound reasonable to the NMB as proposed by the DPA.
Let's make it sound like no matter what DPA COULD do it will always be absurd. If that portrayal of the DPA doesn't taint them enough then lets start the "DPA is actually a secret society set up to overturn the seniority list" rumor all over again.
For the record, most of the ALPA loyalists here will find every reason in the book to discredit the SWA plus concept all the while offering no better negotiating strategy to obtain substantial gains. You will be hard pressed to find a Delta pilot who actually fly's the line say he wouldn't take SWAPA's domestic work rules (in their entirety including W2 building pay and average days at home per month) over what we have now at Delta. Rather, let's discount the SWA plus concept as it was spawned by those evil DPA aligned revolutionists. Bah!
Let's make it sound like no matter what DPA COULD do it will always be absurd. If that portrayal of the DPA doesn't taint them enough then lets start the "DPA is actually a secret society set up to overturn the seniority list" rumor all over again.
For the record, most of the ALPA loyalists here will find every reason in the book to discredit the SWA plus concept all the while offering no better negotiating strategy to obtain substantial gains. You will be hard pressed to find a Delta pilot who actually fly's the line say he wouldn't take SWAPA's domestic work rules (in their entirety including W2 building pay and average days at home per month) over what we have now at Delta. Rather, let's discount the SWA plus concept as it was spawned by those evil DPA aligned revolutionists. Bah!
I never said the DPA was Evil. I only asked what's the plan? From what you have said above, I guess the plan is to ask for SWA Plus...?
DALPA has always used that same strategy in past negotiations, so I don't think it's unique to the DPA. I expect they will open for exactly that, (SWA Plus) on our smallest airframes, and go up from there, this time around too.
12-21-2011, 05:36 PM
#7075
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Position: 756 FO
Posts: 319
Here is an idea... Why don't the DAL pilots focus on opening contract talks this Spring. It amazes me that a new union at this point would fix the issues. If this current DAL leadership and negotiations don't work out then DPA might have some more merit.
12-21-2011, 05:38 PM
#7076
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 107
Let's start with, will DALPA ever let us see what it is?
We moved beyond ALPA's "shut up and color" campaign several months back. Heck, even ALPA doesn't even bother with that argument anymore.
12-21-2011, 05:38 PM
#7077
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
You would have to know the background on this issue to understand. Just read back through this thread, and you should get a better feel for the problem here.
12-21-2011, 05:41 PM
#7078
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
12-21-2011, 05:44 PM
#7079
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2011
Posts: 107
I'd be ecstatic with significantly less than that. But only if we recapture scope first. Which will never happen as long as ALPA's around.
12-21-2011, 05:45 PM
#7080
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2008
Position: 756 FO
Posts: 319
I have read it. I am more curious how would switching to a new union (remove ALPA here it could be anyone) would get through the section 6 process quicker for your pilot group. I am more curious than anything.
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