DAL 88 Driver

Oh come on, Occupy. Don't you know that NO ONE can do it like ALPA can? What other union do you know that took 42% pay cuts and had such a massive number of jobs outsourced to regional airlines? No one does it (or has done it) like ALPA. When it comes to concessions and legal loopholes, ALPA is King of the Hill!!!

Carl Spackler

Oh how soon we forget you ingrate! Allow me to remind you of this:

You...Have...Been...WARNED!

Carl

alfaromeo

Wow, struck a nerve there didn't I. You can always tell who is losing the argument by how many insults they throw. Right, if you can't think, then insult. I see Carl has taught you well. Your next step is to say "You don't know what you are talking about" and then hurl some more insults.

I don't care what other pilot groups want, you stated it was a FACT that there is a conflict of interest and I proved you wrong. I didn't say I was concerned about it. So, you are wrong again.

So let's assume that these other carriers change their tune at the drop of the hat. What is the substance of the Ford-Cooksey settlement. Let's put it in other terms to show perspective. Our contract is opening in April. Would you accept these terms to determine our future compensation?

1. Delta management forms a Compensation Committee to discuss our compensation. Delta pilots are invited to the committee to meet and confer.
2. If no consensus is reached, then Delta management gets to set our compensation to whatever level they feel is appropriate.
3. If the Delta pilots don't like what management decides, then they can appeal to the Delta Board of Directors

If that doesn't seem appealing to you, then I just described the Ford-Cooksey settlement.


It is a nothing burger. What you have done with your DPA is take a situation where pilots are stressed and uncertain and exploited that using fear. We exit bankruptcy, we have a merger, new bases, new procedures, new aircraft, displacements along with aircraft moving around the system. Pilots are uprooted by change and uncertainty.


So, like any good populist you come along to exploit the fear. You put up a website. You scour the forums and find any topic that creates anxiety in pilots. You create this magic entity "DPA" that promises to magically fix every problem in the world. How. "By being for Delta pilots only."


I will give you a clue. Every ALPA leader is already only concerned about Delta pilots. Every concern that anyone has that actually does real work on behalf of pilots (and not thrash behind a keyboard) is just for Delta pilots. You don't need to change unions to get that because it already exists. There is no magic wand to wave, the real world has real problems and it takes a lot of time and sweat to work through them.


We all wish we had this magic wand. I can tell that the magic wand does not exist sitting behind a keyboard spewing out hate and fear with populist diatribes. It does not exist in the simplistic solutions offered by the standard keyboard kowboys. It exists only in work. Grinding, day to day, stomp on one problem and six more appear, work. Work, work, work. That is what is takes. Alas, we can see that even when motivated by their own website, the DPA folks can't even do any work. Sit behind a keyboard and generate hate and fear. Yeah, that's a lot of work.

acl65pilot

Great post ALFA.

dragon

I disagree. It's nothing more than ALPA paid spin.

Every ALPA leader? Absolutely not. Every D-ALPA leader, I certainly hope so. ALPA is concerned with ALPA the entity first and foremost. And before you start lobbing fear grenades. I've done a little volunteer work and seen their communications spin team up close.

We have been told to trust ALPA and they pull things like unenforceable scope language (RAH), age 65 and the TWA DFR. Show me how ALPA (not DALPA) is looking out for DELTA pilots.

Why did our dues money pay for a meeting in FLL at a resort none of the members can afford to pay for on our pay scales and with free booze etc. Why does ALPA pay top wages to its employees but fails to secure the same for its members.

ALPA has to wake up.

NERD

I am as disillusioned with Alpa over the years as anyone. BUT, with all their bloat in DC, all the perceived conflicts of interest, would we be any better without them? The same guys (or types of guys) will eventually be running any new union. How's APA looking? What about Ucrapa? Swapa? They got most of their gains before we all got sodomized. With the exception of scope, we would not have wanted their contract in the pre ch11 period. Remember, that they did not negotiate ****, they just piggybacked on better contracts and took a contract that put them below Dal, Ual, Nwa, Lcc etc.(All Alpa btw) that put them where they(and luv mgmt like)to be. Somewhere in the middle. Decent pay and workrules but not the best. That way they could still compete (undercutting us) but not be a training ground for other airlines. Again, I am sure I will get slammed by Carl and a few of the true believers of everything anti alpa. In reality WE are to blame. On the NWA side 63% voted yes, not sure about the South. So look in the mirror or at the dude next to you(or in Carl's case almost 3 out of 4 on a over 12 hr flt) if you were a NO voter. As a group we are a bunch of spineless pussies. How is that going to change?

Timbo

I agree with both Alfa and Nerd, and let me throw one more log on the fire;

The Railway Labor Act

We have to work within that rule set. Who writes those rules? Politicians. So who pays them? The ATA Lobby pays them about ten times more than the ALPA PAC.

Now, I have always given to the ALPA PAC, but I know the ATA PAC has a lot more more money to "Invest" in Congress than does the ALPA PAC. Any "Job Action" will run up against the RLA brick wall pretty quickly, and then what? What's the "DPA Plan" to deal with the RLA and Mediation?

Ask the APA how long they've been waiting for a raise.

And on the whole "Other Guys" arguement, while it might feel good to toss DALPA off the property, as Alfa and Nerd point out, it's a lot of work, nobody wants to do that work (What did you think that Rocking Chair was for?) and sooner or later, you'll have the same guys running the show, but more importantly, it's the same un-involved guys (the silent majority) sitting at home, voting yes for anything the MEC throws at them. The last time we took a strike vote at DL South, there were 3 to 1 guys calling the DALPA offices crying, "Please don't go on strike! I can't afford to miss a paycheck..." And that was when we made 70% more than we do today.

This is not the first time a group of dissatisfied pilots, post merger, have tried to start an in-house union at Delta, the last time it didn't go very far, but that was before Al Gore invented the internet...

acl65pilot

Another great post.

NERD is right, ALPA National has its issues as any large organization does. That same organization can be fixed if pilot get off their duffs. It has been before, and will be again. They are the only voice that anyone in DC listens to wrt to pilot issues. I do not mean invite in to the room, I mean listen to. Do not give me this CAPA garbage, they may get to show up, but when it comes to decision time, they call the ALPA guys because they know they are the subject matter expert.

Do not believe me, call any pilot that works on Political Affairs and they will tell you.

Timbo

What amazes me is, why didn't these DPA guys get together and take over a council or two, or four? Then, once you have your boys in place, storm the castle.

Most DALPA meeings I've been to, had less than 20 pilots in the room! All the DPA guy had to do is orgainze a bunch of his buddies, go to a meeting, put up a motion, take a vote, presto-chango.

It starts with getting guys to put down their golf clubs and show up at an LEC meeting, that's the hard part!

tsquare

Ummmmm what???????

I'm pretty sure that Lee is not just concerned with the Delta pilots.