gloopy

True. To a point.

DL is never going to fly to Prudhoe Bay or Kotzebue Alaska, Kelowna, Canada or Pullman, Washington. Ever. Certainly not on a mainline sized jet and likely never on a DCI jet or prop, no matter how low the provider bids. Even adding 50 seats a day to some of their routes would be in the red forever.

You could even argue that some frequencies AK offers to routes DL does (or used to do), like SEA-ATL or SEA-BOS might make sense as long as DL metal isn't being adversely effected. But getting shut out of basically the entire west coast is unacceptable. How many thousands of seats a day between LA and SEA and zero on Delta metal or even 2 flights a day BOS-SEA again zero on Delta metal...unacceptable.

I'm not saying we should pull the entire agreement and give up the added network. But right now the "marriage" is a one way street and we lose far more than we gain from it and they gain far more than they lose from it. If my wife gets to have a top 5 list of celebrities she can sleep with, I should certainly get a top 5 list as well. Actually since girls have it way easier to begin with, I should get a top 500 list just to make it equitable but I digest.

Right now our "marriage" with Alaska says that all our stuff is "our" stuff but all their stuff is their stuff, we can sleep with Whoppi Goldberg, Sally Fields or Rachael Maddow the fifth tuesday in any March and they can sleep with Justin Timberlake, Tim Tebow, any 3 of the New York Nicks and the entire cast of "Thunder From Down Under" and/or the "Blue Man Group" (all of them) in Vegas whenever they want.

The deal's gotta be fair and this one is not.

gloopy

I could possibly support something along those lines, but there are some huge areas of concern. First of all there is no way management is ever, ever, going to agree to a scheme whereby every single "mainline" new hire pilot position comes in at top scale pay. With greatly enhanced upward mobility and earning potential and job security would come longevity reset by default or it would never be agreed to from a cost perspective. That is capital you will never find 51% willing to spend. On the other side of that issue, you give DCI pilots the ability to opt out and stay where they are, much like the Compass flow was designed for.

Another big hurdle though is who exactly is DCI and what exactly is a DCI pilot. Back in the days of ASA and Comair doing the vast majority of DCI as well as being wholly owned, it was a bit less murky. Today ASA is SkyWest is Continental Express is ExpressJet and they fly for several airlines. So we let SkyWest fly 130 seat jets for Delta provided we fly them but on our list are United and USAir Express pilots? Delta seniority list pilots also fly United and USAir and American passengers? What?

Fast forward 10 years when things get even more crazy and a Delta pilot could bounce around 20 different certificates flying for United, Virgin, JetBlue, USAir, American or SkyBus 2? Sometimes flying for multiple airlines on the same trip. What? Oh and every mainline new hire comes in at top scale pay, max vacation and sick time and every DCI pilot gets passrider priority over all junior mainline pilots the second that kind of deal is inked.

A staple with protections is potentially workable, but not across the system in its totality and not with full longevity carryover. I can get on board with the spirit and intent of what you're saying but the devil is in the details and honestly as convoluted as it is at "DCI" I'm not sure how to make that happen. Especially if it meant letting a current DCI carrier fly 100+ seat aircraft while we bounce around DCI certificates just so some fake analyst can pretend those planes are "debt free" when they aren't.

gloopy

More importantly, all pilots regardless of career path would enjoy significantly increased job security, more bargaining leverage throughout their career and more downside protections in tough times. The more qualified 20 year mil pilots (as well as the higher time civ pilots) would IMO get the lion's share of the job offers. The preverbal "2 year CFI" would only get the good news "you're hired!" letter if he/she ended up being the most qualified candidate.

nerd2009

Gomer,

Excellent perspective, and very timely

shiznit

ALPA represented DCI pilots only!
The pilot that flows keeps his DCI hourly rate until he catches up to the DAL rate.
Keeps his number of weeks of biddable vacation until equal to DAL vacation weeks (min of 2, max of 3)
Convert to the DAL sick leave policy at 3rd year equivalent.

DCI pilots are "bidding seniority" protected for 5 years if they remain on "pre-merged" equipment, once they bid to another category they get what their seniority holds.

Bucking Bar

Gloopy and Shiz,

The first step is convincing the leadership and the majority of pilots that real, structural, unity is something we want. The many details will be worked out once we resolve to recover our flying.

To get this thread back on topic, the best tool in any union's tool box is unity. The DPA has chosen to find "conflicts of interest" instead of realizing our interests are aligned. By needlessly being divisive, the DPA leaves their best argument and the moral high ground abandoned.

It appears to me the DPA started with an anti-ALPA position, then began exploiting a fasehood to create (out of nothing) a false external threat. That's all fine for negative politics, but, if they win ... what then? How will targeting a false threat get us better scope?

The DPA should make a mid course correction. Fight for unity and you will win the war, regardless of who is in power.

Bucking Bar

Shiz,

That sounds good to me. I was thinking that the date the pilot recieves his "system seniority" woud be the date for effective Delta longevity.

As for pilots getting pass benefits ... Delta has hired very few pilots since 2001 (when the outsourcing exploded. In the mean time thousands of rampers, gate agents and managers came on board at Delta from DCI with their DCI longevity intact. How's it that no one complains about several thousand DCI employees going ahead of us?

shiznit

Well most DCI are now back at S3B so it isn't as much of an issue but I agree with the direction of your argument.

The terms above are in essence what the COEX guys got when the flow to CAL was intact.

I do think we have an uphill battle convincing some of the entrenched leadership that real and concrete unity is where we need to be heading.

scambo1

Shiz;
I did not know you were a DPA guy. Welcome aboard.

Carl Spackler

I would be very concerned about the DPA if they didn't talk about the very clear conlict of interest at ALPA. It is a classic dictionary definition of a conflict of interest. If DPA ignored that, they'd be...well,...you.

Carl