Carl Spackler

That strategy already exists. Open with the SWAPA contract plus huge percentages above. At the end of the process, agree to the SWAPA contract with small percentages above plus increases for higher capacity aircraft. We are as profitable as SWA, and we are only asking for a modest percentage increase above our largest competitor. The company would have no leg to stand on if they tried to get the NMB to park us, thus the NMB would not. But DALPA won't use this strategy. Instead, DALPA lies about what's in the SWAPA contract and hides behind the threat of NMB parking. You have to ask yourself why DALPA is doing this if they are truly aiming for an industry leading contract for us.

Carl

Carl Spackler

No choices are without risk, that's for sure. But as you've correctly stated, DALPA certainly has a considerable recent history of weakness (so did NWALPA). So although a new organization would carry some risk, what are we saying to MANAGEMENT if we continue to keep our current bargaining agent? Given recent history, who among us could really claim shock and surprise if our TA is weak and disappointing?

Carl

Carl Spackler

APC is every bit as accurate a place for information as DALPA. APC has some things right and some wrong, but the wrong here on APC gets quickly and aggressively corrected. That's NOT the case with DALPA.

None of this responds to the huge problem our union has of being top-down. In our top-down union, reps don't matter. Their opinions are all but meaningless unless their opinions align with the MEC administration's permanent bureaucracy. Again, hard working and well meaning reps don't matter. The flight pay loss resolution is only a recent example.

You'd like nothing more than to continue this ruse of making the members think they can change ALPA from the bottom-up through their reps. ALPA knows it's a great waste of time and energy, and so do you. The only question is why you keep touting this silly path.

Carl

DAL 88 Driver

Why do you think our 737's are a match with SWA's 737's? Ours carry more passengers, fly longer stage lengths, and fly a significant amount of international. SWA's carry fewer passengers than ours and fly only domestic... both long and short stage lengths. Other than the B-737 designation, it's an apples and oranges comparison. The MD-88/90 is the fleet we have at Delta that most closely corresponds to the number of seats and type of flying SWA does with their 737's. It seems perfectly reasonable that we would ask that fleet to be brought up to parity, and then apply the same percentage increase to all other fleets. Not only is that a more apples to apples comparison, it also allows us to ask for a larger pay restoration. I don't know why everyone keeps wanting to minimize our pay restoration.

So let me understand this, Timbo. According to you, we're screwed any way you slice it. So wouldn't you at least want someone representing you that is at least ADVOCATING restoration?? In other words, would you rather have someone with an objective that matches yours? Or would you rather have someone with an objective that is far below yours? Or does it not matter because you think we're screwed anyway and it's not worth the effort?

acl65pilot

Carl;

It may be a slow process, but it is not one that is "silly."

WRT to the FPL resolution, talk to your reps. That issue had its day,and though the process of these resolutions will come more transparency wrt to FPL. Not perfect but it is progress.

Timbo

Where have you been since 1978? I've been flying for a living since then, and I've been watching this slow motion train wreck since then. Remember the ATC strike of 1981 and what Reagan did to them? Remember Eastern Airlines and what Bush 1 (and his Houson buddie Lorenzo) did to them?

Deregulation mean anything to you?

We (the Bigger, all encompassing WE, as in all the US Airline pilots) have been getting SCREWED since then. What did you think the ultimate purpose of the Airline Deregulation Act was? To Pay Pilots MORE??

Who represents the Delta Pilots in 2012 has very little bearing on what our contract is going to look like going foreward, but just for fun, and I've got a few minutes before the game starts, I'll give you my take on what's going to go down.

You know that thing called the Railway Labor Act? Well, Management, as well as Wall Street, has figured out how to use it against us. (the Bigger US, as in all organized labor who fall under the RLA) . And when that doesn't work, they can always file Bankruptcy, look at AA today.

So let's say we walk in and throw down for Full Resoration, and lots of other good stuff. The Company cries uncle...to the NMB, we get parked, then what? We strike?

Remember the last time we talked about a strike? Remember when Shrub said, "Not on MY watch!" And I know you've seen what the NMB did to the AA Pilots.

Do you think today's NMB and/or Obama is going to be any different when DALPA or the DPA "Throw Down"? I don't. You think we are going to have any support from Joe the unemployed Plumber? Or maybe all those unemployed US Auto workers will back us up...as you roll up to the picket line in your Kia/Toyota/Honda.

Yes, we are screwed, no matter WHO represents us. American Government has been bought by Big Bussiness. Unless you've been living under a rock the past 30 years, you have seen that this has been going on, across the country, in every industry. "Outsourcing" is the New American Business Model.

The DPA can talk all the smack they want, that's the easy part, what I need to see is a GAME PLAN for restoration. I'm not happy with National ALPA but it's the only game in town right now.

So, what's the DPA plan? What are you going to open for? And when the NMB parks us, then what? Illegal job action?

Yeah, AA tried that too, it cost them about $42 Million and netted them...what?

So...what are we going to do (and I mean the Bigger We as in American Labor) Overthrow the Government?

OK, call me when the revolution starts.

Until then, we are all screwed.

OccupyRestSeat

A "slow process?" You don't say.

As in, "if we drag this out long enough, hopefully enough of our idiot constituents will forget this...and buy off on the extension of the current contract we might be able to negotiate."

And of course it's not "silly" to you--you're an ALPA advocate.

OccupyRestSeat

So do I. And who knows, maybe he will.

But it doesn't matter. The MEC does not give a rat's hairy ass what my LEC dude has to say.

Perception is reality, and that's my (and over 1/3 of the list's) perception.

DAL 88 Driver

OK, Timbo. I'm just not one to give up on my family's financial future and the career I worked so hard to achieve. But whatever floats your boat (or sailboat, as the case may be ). Enjoy the football game... if there is one tonight. Maybe the Giants will forfeit the game, since the Saints have a better record.

OccupyRestSeat

Dpa's "GAME PLAN?" really? where's ALPA's? we sure won't see it, whatever it is.

why are you so certain that the current setup is better than the DPA?

Timbo, with that attitude, we'll be voting on an extension of the current contract plus less-than-cost-of-living bumps. Because "ALPA is the only game in town..." C'mon, man.

I refuse to take the easy way out.