Elmer Fudd

John -

Destruction isn't even a factor. The problem is with the INEPT ALPA NAT'L structure & LACK of performance. The "Takin' It Back" campaign would have been more productive if it was done by the Girl Scouts.

The individual (read Legacy) carriers do not get their "money's worth" WRT what is paid in dues & what they reap. A lot of $$$ is WASTED propping up the inefficient NAT'L structure. DAL pays about $22 mil into the system & uses only $9 mil. The only thing destroyed is the return on our investment. Never mind about the conflicting interest in representing Majors vs. Regionals.

I've waited for over 20 years for ALPA to get off it's backside & do something. The latest developments: ANC has cargo cabotage & CREWPASS is eons from being approved. I'll take my chances with some new faces & new ideas. A handful of other carriers have their own union & they are doing just fine.

brakechatter

Just a point of clarification. CrewPASS is approved. Signed off on. Done. Finished. Complete. It is completely in the company's hands as we speak.

This is an important issue, and I don't presume to tell anyone to card or not to card. At least have the sense, however, to know the issues.

shadyops

Carl,

Not everyone knows how the Delta MEC operates. Also, the thread is titled Delta Pilots Association. My level of ignorance is matched by your level of maturity.

Shady

Bucking Bar

Hey Mister Fudd,

How do you account for the legal settlements ALPA national has paid to settle litigation brought on behalf of, and in the defense of, legacy airline pilots?

At Delta our larger ones have been Miller v. ALPA and Duke / Spellacy (which forced us to mortgage the ALPA HQ). United guys just got us tagged for $44 million.

The national employees are union members who live and work in a very expensive area. Do you suggest we break their union contract?

... and when it comes to a "conflict of interest" if we always win, is it a problem? When has ALPA's President refused to sign a Delta contract?

Just a few questions to help clarify that DPA has a plan ... .

Bucking Bar

Did CrewPass in BWI. Works great

The friendly TSA Supervisor says the remaining issue is "who is going to pay for it." TSA said since we like it so much, we should pay for it. I say they are saving three employees, a scanner, and reducing the lines for the customers that justify all of our jobs. Around and around it goes until ALPA can get something pushed through the bureaucratic structure.

Our Congress has kicked the FAA funding bill along for 15 FIFTEEN! extensions. That is not ALPA's fault. I'm not sure in what business you could fail to do your most basic task 15 times, but that is the condition our government finds itself in.

ALPA / DPA / USAPA / Oprah's Book Club ... does not matter. ALPA isn't the hang up here.

brakechatter

Couldn't agree more. I have a few other beefs with the TSA, but will take them up elsewhere. The point was that, for now, it is in the company's hands. The cost is relatively cheap for now in order to fire it up. The company will decide whether or not to foot the bill for now. The battle for long term cost is a fight still being fought.

Elmer Fudd

So the Legacys are getting to use some of the millions they have deposited over the years. Sounds good to me.

I never advocated breaking anyone's contract. New Hire pilots based in NYC, LAX, DCA, BOS, SFO live / work in a very expensive area. They need to be paid more. Do you agree that someone at ALPA NATL that answers the phone should make more money than a new hire / professional airline pilot? ALPA NATL is here to serve the pilots, but is has turned into a self-fulfilling entity, where it serves itself.

I have no idea what your statement means. The conflict is that ALPA NATL want all the pilots to be members. Some of the pilot groups are interested in the same jobs. NATL can't represent both sides at the same time. It's like having one lawyer to represent both a husband & wife that want a divorce. It's not hard to understand.

Bucking Bar

But what if we use more than we deposited? It invalidates your argument for decertification. One of SkyWest's arguments for not joining ALPA was that the Regional pilots did not want to subsidize legacy screw ups. We have set up a system that rewards experience. New hires lack the longevity that maybe a 20 year ALPA employee might have. Are we making an Apples to Apples comparison?

If I run off the runway on some dark night on the other side of the planet and am facing a team of Police investigators who I can't understand, the last thing on my mind is going to be how much the person answering the phone gets paid. I'm just happy they are there and on my side with answers to questions that I've never contemplated. Same situation when a letter comes from Oklahoma stating my medical is in question because of an ECG a decade ago.

So much of ALPA's work is done by volunteers that we get a tremendous deal in any event.If they are "interested in the same jobs" let ALPA facilitate those employment goals, as ALPA just did with the Compass and Mesaba pilots. We do have the same goals of improving pilot pay, career security and advancement. Rather than finding Counsel for divorce, we should get a little marriage counseling.

ALPA can, and should, represent both sides towards our common goals. It is called unity.

Take the case of Spirit. The Spirit pilots struck mostly over First Officer pay (showing a lot of unity over a "junior pilot" issue). Management was intent on breaking the strike and tried to fly the airline. Not only did the Spirit pilots stand unified. The profession honored a ALPA picket line.

Thanks for your reply and dialog.

Scoop

Bar,

Fair enough, but what is the problem with an open discussion followed by a vote? IF ALPA is as good for us as you say then it will be a slam dunk.

ALPA should welcome this issue as an opportuntiy to go head to head on issues and show us why they are they best choice.

What is wrong with a little competition for our support? Maybe there might be a better way. Maybe not. Lets openly debate it and then vote on it.

Scoop

acl65pilot

I beleive that Bar's point was that if you want to argue ALPA's merits you need to look at the facts, not what suits your side of the argument.