hoserpilot

Thanks for answering the question. I thougt the number was just members. Since it is actually valid cards that makes the number more impressive. I wonder how much higher the membership number is? I know many cards from the initial push have expired. Why hasn't DPA reached out to those folks to renew their interest cards? That alone could push the numbers up a few hundred within a couple weeks. Most people are inherently lazy. Sending a self addressed stamped interest card to previous contacts that have expired cards might spur some renewed interest.

TheManager

The card count is going to continue gaining momentum. That momentum is going to increase depending on:

1. The contract outcome at AMR. The APA is now using ALPA negotiating help as was highlighted and applauded many times by the ALPA acolytes. If anything remotely similiar to the heinous scope porposal, B Scale infused, substandard pay, long term POS that was offered is TA'd, then ALPA will be seen as an integral part of the failure as well.

2. ALPA's public response, or more importantly the lack of one, to the proposed offer will also be a catalyst for more cards. This is a time to send a message as a unified group to the ATA. ALPA needs to stand up and make its position known. AMR, and by definition the ATA, are taking this negotiation public. Time to react accordingly

Not holding my breath.

DAL 88 Driver

Interesting that APA is using ALPA resources to help them with their negotiations. And they come up with this??

Scary.

And if this was Delta... I would hope we'd have a riot on our hands and a new collective bargaining agent.

sailingfun

Carl, I would love to see your actual W2 at the end of the year. If your on the 747 making 187 your so far below the average your off the chart. There were 747 guys who made over 50k in one month last winter. Come on over to the 767 and make another 50 grand. The average pilot at Delta in 2010 made 142,000.00 In 2011 that number is going to be above 150. The average pilot at Delta got 87 pay hours per month. The average over the last 5 years has been around 1050 hours per year and that includes the lean years on 08/09.
The average Captain is over 170K. How you can turn that into a statement that 142K is way more then that is beyond me.

hoserpilot

Someone has to bring that average down!!! Let it be me. I have never made 6 figures in aviation, never. Still hasn't changed since coming here. Not complaining, just stating a fact. Reserve pay rocks!!!!!



disclaimer - Most months I choose to bid reserve. My schedule is way better on reserve than a 65 hour crummy line that works every holiday and weekend.

DAL 88 Driver

You're quoting some stats that are really questionable. I'll choose to believe what I've seen with my own eyes and experienced myself. Me? DC-9 Captain on reserve: W2 = ~$130,000. Just about what my W2 was in 2004 as a 6-year MD-88 First Officer.

Carl Spackler

Look sailing, I know this is difficult for you to believe. You've never believed any of us former NWA guys when we tried to tell you that our pay has gone backward AFTER the merger. The rates went up, but our pay went DOWN.

Look at the 747 captain lines recently. Many, many are BELOW 70 hours. Our ALV this month is 72. Often times I bid reserve so that I can make at least 70 hours. As far as open time, forget about it. You can make up all the numbers you want about average time being 87 hours per month, but it's just not true. The truth is that I make just under 40,000 more per year than the AVERAGE Southwest Airlines copilot. No amount of dreamweaving on your part will change those facts dude.

Carl

gloopy

So let's see from 2 posts over 2 pages in the same thread:

Well there we have it!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whiskey Tango What?

The average DL CA makes 50K less per year than the average SW CA. I think that "delta P" is similar for FO's as well.

And average is one very important metric. So is min guarantee. We need to compare both with SWA. Either way we lose. Hard.

Still think a 10-15% raise followed by full or partial COLA is going to cut it? Or 30% "over the life of" (which means around cost neutral over a 5 year deal).

NWA320pilot

There are a FEW guys that make big dollars on the 744...... But the vast majority I fly with are making ALV. If you are on reserve you will get 70 hours, period! OK maybe a couple will get a big trip that will pay 75 or so but those are few and far in between.

Herkflyr

Sailing,

For the most part I find your posts to be pretty reasonable and spot on, and I usually disagree with Carl. But I have to call BS on this one.

If there were whale captains making 50K a month that was an anomaly--certainly not the norm! They were either doing Rolling Thunder with a vengeance or had no life flying most every day with lots of green slips.

To really make a good argument, consider:

DAL pilots get paid by the hour, SWA pilots by the "trip."

A SWA 737 captain makes more per trip than a DAL 7ER captain does per hour.

Here is where it really gets revolting:

- The reserve guarantee at DAL is 70 hours a month. At SWA it is 90 (!) trips a month--at a rate higher than our hourly rate for all categories 7ER and below!

- Minimum pay is 6.5 TFP (Trips for Pay) a day.

- An example listed in the "Welcome" book for AirTran pilots listed a MDW-LAS-MDW turnaround at 7.55 hours. Impressive enough, all by itself. But at SWA that paid 9.3 trips! (at a pay rate higher than the 7ER hourly rate at DAL).

- Duty rig is .74 TFP for every hour on duty. That means a 13 hour duty day would pay 9.6 TFP (at a rate higher than your hourly 7ER rate).

Get the picture? SWA pilots have a great contract when it comes to min pay guarantees. We have a long way to go. I don't think highlighting the statistical outlier pilot who happens to be flying lots of GS in a particular undermanned category is wise. We need to focus on the broad airline-wide picture.