80ktsClamp

Thank you!

DAL 88 Driver

And at the rate you have been doing that, you will continue to have 40% less buying power than you did prior to the massive pay cuts seven years ago. You may be in love with your strategy, but I don't see how you can possibly love those results!

DALPA talking point #1: Anybody who points out how far behind we are and advocates restoration is "whining."

I have never said that I know the exact strategy that produces more. What I do know is that strategies must be developed after defining and communicating the objective. You're talking about step #2 when step #1 has yet to be done. I also know that nobody ever achieves anything significant and difficult without first setting the objective and then setting out with a laser like focus on achieving it. If restoration is our objective, our MEC has done a miserable job of communicating that. (Actually, they've done a very effective job of giving the impression this is NOT our strategy.) From everything I've seen from our MEC, I would have to say that our objective is something well short of restoration. Even TO'M has categorized what we've achieved since bankruptcy as "significant" and "substantial." So have you. So has Lee Moak. From reading you guys, one would have to conclude that we are pretty happy with our results to date and that we do not expect a whole lot more, certainly not anything like the 70% pay increase it would take to achieve C2K+COLA.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. No one wins all the time. But I can live with someone who has the objective to win and is doing their best to win. I cannot live with someone who gives up before ever getting started. What I have seen from DALPA in the past 7 years absolutely disgusts me.

clancy

88, just for some perspective, what is the highest hourly rate you have ever had at Delta, and how much less are you making now? Or are you right now, making the highest hourly rate you ever have had at Delta?

I'm about 20% down from my high.

scambo1

Thanks for the perspective. It reminds me of a joke.

Chief Pilot (cp) sees a pilot in the hallway who isn't wearing his hat. CP says "where's your hat?" Pilot responds "It was stolen." CP says "stolen? where was it?" Pilot responds "sitting next to my retirement."

acl65pilot

Talk about lowering the bar. He was 7-8 years in to DAL in 2004. Should he not make more than he did as an FO under an pre Ch11 contract?

Just because you are 20% down from your top pay rate does not mean that pay should only go up 20%.

Carl Spackler

At least you couch this as your opinion. But the facts are that the DPA movement to decertify ALPA was well underway prior to the organization deciding on a legal firm. Once the decision to attempt a decertification was made, then the law firm was chosen. Not the other way around.

You're certainly entitled to our opinion, but again, your facts are wrong. USAPA embarked on this strategy of doing anything necessary to keep the Nicolau award off the property - then Seham was hired to execute those orders. That's what a law firm does. This was a USAPA inspired strategy, not a Seham inspired one. And in case you haven't noticed, the Nicolau award is still not implemented 4 years later.

The impotent ALPA folks at Delta also gave away another scope concession via LOA without MEMRAT. The impotent ALPA folks at Delta also refused to grieve the blatant scope violation at RAH because the impotent ALPA lawyers wrote scope language that was so weak, the impotent ALPA lawyers said they couldn't defend it.

Problem with your logic is (and it's a big problem), Seham only executes the strategy decided upon by the client. Again, that's how lawyers work.

Is that anything like ALPA telling us that they are utterly opposed to the age 65 retirement? And that ALPA members have spoken by majority that they are opposed to age 65, thus ALPA will vigorously oppose the measure on behalf of its members?

Carl

Carl Spackler

But I keep answering it Pineapple Guy. There are no cards. They've all expired. There's nothing for you or the MEC to be concerned about.

Carl

Carl Spackler

The SWAPA model is a great one. Adopting their contract IN TOTAL plus 5% for the MD88, and premiums above that based on capacity is a great strategy. The NMB would have no choice but to agree. But instead, ALPA doesn't tell us the truth about the SWAPA contract, and many MEC guys on here issue veiled threats like: "Be careful what you wish for" and "It could cause us to lose the bottom quarter of the seniority list". Why would ALPA do that? Why wouldn't they use this great tool of leverage for our gain, instead of portraying it falsely and trying to scare us out of even discussing it? Furthermore, why would ALPA tell us they couldn't talk about Air France pay when I was able to find it on Google in 10 seconds?

Coming from someone in the MEC bureaucracy, I really appreciate your honesty on the subject of expectation management. It's clear our MEC has been managing our expectations downward. Of that there can be no doubt. It's good to hear of your logic behind it.

That's a shameful characterization of an ad that was taken out to publicize that USAir management tried to pressure 3 A330 captains to fly an aircraft over water that all 3 captains deemed to be unsafe. Your hatred of USAPA because they decertified ALPA should not blind you to the fact that this incident was a PILOT issue, not a union issue.

Only if you are devoted to erecting straw men to argue against an indefensible premise. No union has done anything close to that. Can't imagine why you would make such a blatantly false comment.

Carl

Carl Spackler

This is SUCH an important point that you've brought up over and over again. What you've stated is the very foundation of any successful endeavor. We have many folks here that tell us DALPA really agrees with this too - but they are just keeping their powder dry for just the right moment. Then the excuse was: We need to wait for the survey results, then you'll see ALPA shout out the objectives. Instead, we now hear we'll not be shown the survey results...not even a summary. Then the excuse was, wait til you see the opener, then you'll see DALPA's objectives. Instead, we now hear that we'll not be shown the opener even AFTER it's exchanged with management. Why? Because it would be like showing your hand in poker. What? No really, What?

I believe the truth is staring us in the face, but that truth is simply too painful and scary to face. DALPA has already decided, but they know their decision would be far too unpopular. That's why they cannot state the objective. If they were truthful about the objective, they know we'd come after them with pitchforks. If they overstated the objectives to placate us, then they'd look like clear failures when they didn't achieve them.

Outlining the strategy and process as you've stated above DAL 88 Driver, is a tried and true method. No successful entity would tell you otherwise. The only question for us is: Why won't DALPA do it?

Carl

hoserpilot

I know your trying to be funny but Pineapple isn't the only person on here asking this question. There are interest cards, some have expired, some more are needed to solicit the government for a vote. If you really believe what you wrote to be true, maybe your not the best spokesperson for DPA?