Delta Pilots Association
09-27-2011, 02:08 AM
#6391
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
As you correctly state below, we can't prove the FPL because ALPA still refuses the will of numerous LEC's. But it's hard to imagine that a guy would lose 4 days of pay to volunteer for ALPA "duty" during the ATL lounge week.
You're right. I'm going to submit a resolution...oh wait...
Carl
Carl
09-27-2011, 02:48 AM
#6392
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Still in one
Posts: 784
Considering the envrionment and the situation, I find the lack of DPA activity in the LEC arena pretty indicitive of their effectiveness as a stand alone organization.
There is no greater joy for people subject to bad management then kicking a CEO out of his own office.
That's the opportunity that the DPA is missing out on. Giving the boot to a couple of borgified LEC reps, dumping the MEC Chair in a noisy special MEC meeting and then firing all of the committee chairs you don't like would be just as joyful, if not more so, than getting rid of ALPA.
It would be orders of magnitude easier than a whole certification deal and you get to keep all of the cash, the MCF, and the neato office furniture on Virginia Ave.
You could then call ALPA National and lay the law down, or you would take your 12k members and walk across the street to the UFXUPSAADAPA...the union born out CAPA.
This is such a prefered alternative, that it leads me to believe that the DPA is simply ego driven, and not worthy of my august support.
Nu
There is no greater joy for people subject to bad management then kicking a CEO out of his own office.
That's the opportunity that the DPA is missing out on. Giving the boot to a couple of borgified LEC reps, dumping the MEC Chair in a noisy special MEC meeting and then firing all of the committee chairs you don't like would be just as joyful, if not more so, than getting rid of ALPA.
It would be orders of magnitude easier than a whole certification deal and you get to keep all of the cash, the MCF, and the neato office furniture on Virginia Ave.
You could then call ALPA National and lay the law down, or you would take your 12k members and walk across the street to the UFXUPSAADAPA...the union born out CAPA.
This is such a prefered alternative, that it leads me to believe that the DPA is simply ego driven, and not worthy of my august support.
Nu
The mechanisms to change your own union if you don't like it have always been there, and considerably less effort than creating a new union. In fact the current Church of Moak came into power by forcing the recall of the previous Chairman. The fact that 3500+ (supposed) DPA supporters have not rallied to do as you suggest is a stark example of their potential lack of effectiveness as a future bargaining agent. With the numbers they have they could literally own this MEC.
They have utterly failed to rise to the occasion and fill the shoes they profess to wear, and have my scorn as a result. If anything the DPA has helped DALPA as it now gives them another propaganda flag to wrap themselves in while exercising McCarthyism on any who would dare to disagree with them.
09-27-2011, 06:18 AM
#6393
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,049
Considering the envrionment and the situation, I find the lack of DPA activity in the LEC arena pretty indicitive of their effectiveness as a stand alone organization.
There is no greater joy for people subject to bad management then kicking a CEO out of his own office.
That's the opportunity that the DPA is missing out on. Giving the boot to a couple of borgified LEC reps, dumping the MEC Chair in a noisy special MEC meeting and then firing all of the committee chairs you don't like would be just as joyful, if not more so, than getting rid of ALPA.
It would be orders of magnitude easier than a whole certification deal and you get to keep all of the cash, the MCF, and the neato office furniture on Virginia Ave.
You could then call ALPA National and lay the law down, or you would take your 12k members and walk across the street to the UFXUPSAADAPA...the union born out CAPA.
This is such a prefered alternative, that it leads me to believe that the DPA is simply ego driven, and not worthy of my august support.
Nu
There is no greater joy for people subject to bad management then kicking a CEO out of his own office.
That's the opportunity that the DPA is missing out on. Giving the boot to a couple of borgified LEC reps, dumping the MEC Chair in a noisy special MEC meeting and then firing all of the committee chairs you don't like would be just as joyful, if not more so, than getting rid of ALPA.
It would be orders of magnitude easier than a whole certification deal and you get to keep all of the cash, the MCF, and the neato office furniture on Virginia Ave.
You could then call ALPA National and lay the law down, or you would take your 12k members and walk across the street to the UFXUPSAADAPA...the union born out CAPA.
This is such a prefered alternative, that it leads me to believe that the DPA is simply ego driven, and not worthy of my august support.
Nu
09-27-2011, 06:20 AM
#6394
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,049
Seniority Block Representation ?
If we ever grow, how would the DPA ensure junior pilots receive the benefit of experienced representation? Don't junior pilots deserve the same representation that mid level pilots deserve? What if at the senior end, it is difficult to find someone who retains the drive to engage in union representation?
At the end of the day, ALPA is a product of Delta pilot leadership. The DPA is not going to be substantially different because it is substantially the same. It repeats the same historical errors and follows the same political currents. But the DPA is much less experienced and draws from shallow resources. The representational change, if it happens, will do the same things with less efficacy. If the DPA knew "how to fix it" they would engage in just the sort of action Nu and TANSTAF advocate.
Who ever has the representational job, they are going to have to negotiate in an environment where American's contract is likely going to come under concessionary pressure and US Air's contract remains garbage.
If we ever grow, how would the DPA ensure junior pilots receive the benefit of experienced representation? Don't junior pilots deserve the same representation that mid level pilots deserve? What if at the senior end, it is difficult to find someone who retains the drive to engage in union representation?
At the end of the day, ALPA is a product of Delta pilot leadership. The DPA is not going to be substantially different because it is substantially the same. It repeats the same historical errors and follows the same political currents. But the DPA is much less experienced and draws from shallow resources. The representational change, if it happens, will do the same things with less efficacy. If the DPA knew "how to fix it" they would engage in just the sort of action Nu and TANSTAF advocate.
Who ever has the representational job, they are going to have to negotiate in an environment where American's contract is likely going to come under concessionary pressure and US Air's contract remains garbage.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 09-27-2011 at 06:37 AM.
09-27-2011, 10:30 AM
#6395
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,913
The Tranny guys are showing how easy it is to recall reps. They've got a few going on the ballot now.
It is such a ridiculously easy process that the DPA could have had the entire slate of LEC reps recalled by now (maybe some twice!), and they'd have their own people in.
This is just a side show distracting from the change that could happen.
Nu
It is such a ridiculously easy process that the DPA could have had the entire slate of LEC reps recalled by now (maybe some twice!), and they'd have their own people in.
This is just a side show distracting from the change that could happen.
Nu
09-27-2011, 11:03 AM
#6396
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
The Tranny guys are showing how easy it is to recall reps. They've got a few going on the ballot now.
It is such a ridiculously easy process that the DPA could have had the entire slate of LEC reps recalled by now (maybe some twice!), and they'd have their own people in.
This is just a side show distracting from the change that could happen.
Nu
It is such a ridiculously easy process that the DPA could have had the entire slate of LEC reps recalled by now (maybe some twice!), and they'd have their own people in.
This is just a side show distracting from the change that could happen.
Nu
Also, anyone that thinks all the reps are "koolaid drinking expectation managers" need to take a look at the last LEC66 newsletter. The Reps up there "get it".
09-27-2011, 11:06 AM
#6397
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
The Tranny guys are showing how easy it is to recall reps. They've got a few going on the ballot now.
It is such a ridiculously easy process that the DPA could have had the entire slate of LEC reps recalled by now (maybe some twice!), and they'd have their own people in.
This is just a side show distracting from the change that could happen.
Nu
It is such a ridiculously easy process that the DPA could have had the entire slate of LEC reps recalled by now (maybe some twice!), and they'd have their own people in.
This is just a side show distracting from the change that could happen.
Nu
09-27-2011, 11:39 AM
#6398
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
We (all) tend to be a pretty apathetic group anyway though, don't we? I mean try and find 3500 ALPA supporters at an airline to "rally" for anything. How many ALPA supporters even show up for meetings? (And that's with a 70+ year head start and tons of resources).
If the DPA is to be effective, they need to somehow awaken the sleeping giant that is all of us. The same can be said for ALPA though.
If the DPA is to be effective, they need to somehow awaken the sleeping giant that is all of us. The same can be said for ALPA though.
09-28-2011, 07:21 AM
#6399
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl
09-28-2011, 09:15 AM
#6400
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Road construction signholder
Posts: 2,439
In fact the current Church of Moak came into power by forcing the recall of the previous Chairman.
Unless I misunderstood your point?
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