Delta Pilots Association
09-26-2011, 06:07 AM
#6381
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Why would they have to be "historically" irresponsible? ALPA freely gives plenty of historical screwups. Noone has to be irresponsible in reporting them.
Is it really "irresponsible" to not name names on an anonymous public forum.
Your response is nothing more than irresponsible flamebait.
09-26-2011, 07:18 AM
#6382
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Road construction signholder
Posts: 2,440
I plan to vote NO on whatever comes down the pipe first. Whatever POS they come up with will need to go back into the oven and get baked further till it's golden brown.
The whole dog and pony show about how this is the best they can do and we better vote yes is all BS.
The whole dog and pony show about how this is the best they can do and we better vote yes is all BS.
No one should vote NO or YES "just because."
You read the TA, evaluate the pros and cons (and there will be both, all the time, forever) and vote accordingly. If it is worthy of ratification, vote yes. If it is less than the pilot group could have and should have gotten, then vote no.
It is that simple.
Think about if. If you were management and knew that the pilots would vote down any TA, why negotiate in good faith at all? If I were management, I would just propose minimum wage or some aviation equivalent, all pilots are on reserve forever, live in a trailer park next to the employee parking lot, etc. Why propose one penny more if you know the pilots will shoot it down.
Think the other way. What if management also got a "CEO ratification" for a TA. What if you overheard him say, "no matter how many concessions the pilots give, I will reject the TA because I know I can always get more."
Given that, why would the pilots ever propose less than the sum total of the US GNP divided by the number of pilots on the seniority list?
Read any TA, learn it, know it, and vote accordingly.
If the TA sucks, vote NO. If it is good, vote YES.
Voting NO is no guarantee that the next TA will be better.
Voting YES is no guarantee that "this was the best we could do."
09-26-2011, 07:33 AM
#6383
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: 777 Sim Instructor
Posts: 745
Ah yes, the "just vote NO!" crowd chimes in again. Ask the AA guys how that's working out for them?
No one should vote NO or YES "just because."
You read the TA, evaluate the pros and cons (and there will be both, all the time, forever) and vote accordingly. If it is worthy of ratification, vote yes. If it is less than the pilot group could have and should have gotten, then vote no.
It is that simple.
Think about if. If you were management and knew that the pilots would vote down any TA, why negotiate in good faith at all? If I were management, I would just propose minimum wage or some aviation equivalent, all pilots are on reserve forever, live in a trailer park next to the employee parking lot, etc. Why propose one penny more if you know the pilots will shoot it down.
Think the other way. What if management also got a "CEO ratification" for a TA. What if you overheard him say, "no matter how many concessions the pilots give, I will reject the TA because I know I can always get more."
Given that, why would the pilots ever propose less than the sum total of the US GNP divided by the number of pilots on the seniority list?
Read any TA, learn it, know it, and vote accordingly.
If the TA sucks, vote NO. If it is good, vote YES.
Voting NO is no guarantee that the next TA will be better.
Voting YES is no guarantee that "this was the best we could do."
No one should vote NO or YES "just because."
You read the TA, evaluate the pros and cons (and there will be both, all the time, forever) and vote accordingly. If it is worthy of ratification, vote yes. If it is less than the pilot group could have and should have gotten, then vote no.
It is that simple.
Think about if. If you were management and knew that the pilots would vote down any TA, why negotiate in good faith at all? If I were management, I would just propose minimum wage or some aviation equivalent, all pilots are on reserve forever, live in a trailer park next to the employee parking lot, etc. Why propose one penny more if you know the pilots will shoot it down.
Think the other way. What if management also got a "CEO ratification" for a TA. What if you overheard him say, "no matter how many concessions the pilots give, I will reject the TA because I know I can always get more."
Given that, why would the pilots ever propose less than the sum total of the US GNP divided by the number of pilots on the seniority list?
Read any TA, learn it, know it, and vote accordingly.
If the TA sucks, vote NO. If it is good, vote YES.
Voting NO is no guarantee that the next TA will be better.
Voting YES is no guarantee that "this was the best we could do."
09-26-2011, 07:33 AM
#6384
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 478
Ah yes, the "just vote NO!" crowd chimes in again. Ask the AA guys how that's working out for them?
No one should vote NO or YES "just because."
You read the TA, evaluate the pros and cons (and there will be both, all the time, forever) and vote accordingly. If it is worthy of ratification, vote yes. If it is less than the pilot group could have and should have gotten, then vote no.
It is that simple.
Think about if. If you were management and knew that the pilots would vote down any TA, why negotiate in good faith at all? If I were management, I would just propose minimum wage or some aviation equivalent, all pilots are on reserve forever, live in a trailer park next to the employee parking lot, etc. Why propose one penny more if you know the pilots will shoot it down.
Think the other way. What if management also got a "CEO ratification" for a TA. What if you overheard him say, "no matter how many concessions the pilots give, I will reject the TA because I know I can always get more."
Given that, why would the pilots ever propose less than the sum total of the US GNP divided by the number of pilots on the seniority list?
Read any TA, learn it, know it, and vote accordingly.
If the TA sucks, vote NO. If it is good, vote YES.
Voting NO is no guarantee that the next TA will be better.
Voting YES is no guarantee that "this was the best we could do."
No one should vote NO or YES "just because."
You read the TA, evaluate the pros and cons (and there will be both, all the time, forever) and vote accordingly. If it is worthy of ratification, vote yes. If it is less than the pilot group could have and should have gotten, then vote no.
It is that simple.
Think about if. If you were management and knew that the pilots would vote down any TA, why negotiate in good faith at all? If I were management, I would just propose minimum wage or some aviation equivalent, all pilots are on reserve forever, live in a trailer park next to the employee parking lot, etc. Why propose one penny more if you know the pilots will shoot it down.
Think the other way. What if management also got a "CEO ratification" for a TA. What if you overheard him say, "no matter how many concessions the pilots give, I will reject the TA because I know I can always get more."
Given that, why would the pilots ever propose less than the sum total of the US GNP divided by the number of pilots on the seniority list?
Read any TA, learn it, know it, and vote accordingly.
If the TA sucks, vote NO. If it is good, vote YES.
Voting NO is no guarantee that the next TA will be better.
Voting YES is no guarantee that "this was the best we could do."
09-26-2011, 08:06 AM
#6385
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,325
Ah yes, the "just vote NO!" crowd chimes in again. Ask the AA guys how that's working out for them?
No one should vote NO or YES "just because."
You read the TA, evaluate the pros and cons (and there will be both, all the time, forever) and vote accordingly. If it is worthy of ratification, vote yes. If it is less than the pilot group could have and should have gotten, then vote no.
It is that simple.
Think about if. If you were management and knew that the pilots would vote down any TA, why negotiate in good faith at all? If I were management, I would just propose minimum wage or some aviation equivalent, all pilots are on reserve forever, live in a trailer park next to the employee parking lot, etc. Why propose one penny more if you know the pilots will shoot it down.
Think the other way. What if management also got a "CEO ratification" for a TA. What if you overheard him say, "no matter how many concessions the pilots give, I will reject the TA because I know I can always get more."
Given that, why would the pilots ever propose less than the sum total of the US GNP divided by the number of pilots on the seniority list?
Read any TA, learn it, know it, and vote accordingly.
If the TA sucks, vote NO. If it is good, vote YES.
Voting NO is no guarantee that the next TA will be better.
Voting YES is no guarantee that "this was the best we could do."
No one should vote NO or YES "just because."
You read the TA, evaluate the pros and cons (and there will be both, all the time, forever) and vote accordingly. If it is worthy of ratification, vote yes. If it is less than the pilot group could have and should have gotten, then vote no.
It is that simple.
Think about if. If you were management and knew that the pilots would vote down any TA, why negotiate in good faith at all? If I were management, I would just propose minimum wage or some aviation equivalent, all pilots are on reserve forever, live in a trailer park next to the employee parking lot, etc. Why propose one penny more if you know the pilots will shoot it down.
Think the other way. What if management also got a "CEO ratification" for a TA. What if you overheard him say, "no matter how many concessions the pilots give, I will reject the TA because I know I can always get more."
Given that, why would the pilots ever propose less than the sum total of the US GNP divided by the number of pilots on the seniority list?
Read any TA, learn it, know it, and vote accordingly.
If the TA sucks, vote NO. If it is good, vote YES.
Voting NO is no guarantee that the next TA will be better.
Voting YES is no guarantee that "this was the best we could do."
09-26-2011, 08:19 AM
#6386
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,913
Considering the envrionment and the situation, I find the lack of DPA activity in the LEC arena pretty indicitive of their effectiveness as a stand alone organization.
There is no greater joy for people subject to bad management then kicking a CEO out of his own office.
That's the opportunity that the DPA is missing out on. Giving the boot to a couple of borgified LEC reps, dumping the MEC Chair in a noisy special MEC meeting and then firing all of the committee chairs you don't like would be just as joyful, if not more so, than getting rid of ALPA.
It would be orders of magnitude easier than a whole certification deal and you get to keep all of the cash, the MCF, and the neato office furniture on Virginia Ave.
You could then call ALPA National and lay the law down, or you would take your 12k members and walk across the street to the UFXUPSAADAPA...the union born out CAPA.
This is such a prefered alternative, that it leads me to believe that the DPA is simply ego driven, and not worthy of my august support.
Nu
There is no greater joy for people subject to bad management then kicking a CEO out of his own office.
That's the opportunity that the DPA is missing out on. Giving the boot to a couple of borgified LEC reps, dumping the MEC Chair in a noisy special MEC meeting and then firing all of the committee chairs you don't like would be just as joyful, if not more so, than getting rid of ALPA.
It would be orders of magnitude easier than a whole certification deal and you get to keep all of the cash, the MCF, and the neato office furniture on Virginia Ave.
You could then call ALPA National and lay the law down, or you would take your 12k members and walk across the street to the UFXUPSAADAPA...the union born out CAPA.
This is such a prefered alternative, that it leads me to believe that the DPA is simply ego driven, and not worthy of my august support.
Nu
09-26-2011, 01:08 PM
#6387
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl
09-26-2011, 01:26 PM
#6388
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
You may now continue with your thesis that the DPA is historically irresponsible with their rhetoric and rumors.
Carl
09-26-2011, 09:39 PM
#6389
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Not that this will change the minds of the ALPA apologists, but here goes. The ALPA volunteer who did this also posted here as "Carl Spakler". The reason I know this is because I got called asking why I would have done something that vulgar and stupidly using the corporate logo and name. I had to explain that I am Carl Spackler...not Carl Spakler. The DPA guys saw this during the ATL lounge week, and this Carl Spakler guy stopped posting here, deleted his posts that referenced the vulgar video, then closed his YouTube account. This guy's schedule was checked and he had a 4 day trip that he dropped to be an ALPA volunteer at the DPA's ATL lounge week.
You may now continue with your thesis that the DPA is historically irresponsible with their rhetoric and rumors.
Carl
You may now continue with your thesis that the DPA is historically irresponsible with their rhetoric and rumors.
Carl
So, where are the FPL reports that were requested by the numerous resolutions sent to the MEC? And while we are at it, how about that promised AF/KLM wage and benefit comparison?
And just for grins, since ALPA can conjure up what we cost per available seat mile, how about also conjuring up how much revenue we bring in per available seat mile as well?
Well, we're waiting.......
09-26-2011, 10:45 PM
#6390
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: Space Shuttle PIC
Posts: 2,007
Ah yes, the "just vote NO!" crowd chimes in again. Ask the AA guys how that's working out for them?
No one should vote NO or YES "just because."
You read the TA, evaluate the pros and cons (and there will be both, all the time, forever) and vote accordingly. If it is worthy of ratification, vote yes. If it is less than the pilot group could have and should have gotten, then vote no.
It is that simple.
Think about if. If you were management and knew that the pilots would vote down any TA, why negotiate in good faith at all? If I were management, I would just propose minimum wage or some aviation equivalent, all pilots are on reserve forever, live in a trailer park next to the employee parking lot, etc. Why propose one penny more if you know the pilots will shoot it down.
Think the other way. What if management also got a "CEO ratification" for a TA. What if you overheard him say, "no matter how many concessions
the pilots give, I will reject the TA because I know I can always get more."
Given that, why would the pilots ever propose less than the sum total of the US GNP divided by the number of pilots on the seniority list?
Read any TA, learn it, know it, and vote accordingly.
If the TA sucks, vote NO. If it is good, vote YES.
Voting NO is no guarantee that the next TA will be better.
Voting YES is no guarantee that "this was the best we could do."
No one should vote NO or YES "just because."
You read the TA, evaluate the pros and cons (and there will be both, all the time, forever) and vote accordingly. If it is worthy of ratification, vote yes. If it is less than the pilot group could have and should have gotten, then vote no.
It is that simple.
Think about if. If you were management and knew that the pilots would vote down any TA, why negotiate in good faith at all? If I were management, I would just propose minimum wage or some aviation equivalent, all pilots are on reserve forever, live in a trailer park next to the employee parking lot, etc. Why propose one penny more if you know the pilots will shoot it down.
Think the other way. What if management also got a "CEO ratification" for a TA. What if you overheard him say, "no matter how many concessions
the pilots give, I will reject the TA because I know I can always get more."
Given that, why would the pilots ever propose less than the sum total of the US GNP divided by the number of pilots on the seniority list?
Read any TA, learn it, know it, and vote accordingly.
If the TA sucks, vote NO. If it is good, vote YES.
Voting NO is no guarantee that the next TA will be better.
Voting YES is no guarantee that "this was the best we could do."
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