scambo1

"Pilots make the decisions at the local level. ALPA legal advises them and the pilots choose what to do. If they dont do what alpa legal says, they usually regret it."

I think PCL said something like this. You know, the ALPA nat'l officer who wouldn't spend any time on an anonymous web board.

Look, I am a reasonable guy, people make mistakes. Organizations make mistakes. Certainly, for the past 10 years reasonable pilots have to wonder what their ALPA dues dollars have gotten them.

Bucking Bar

Mesabah,

I do not know enough about ALPA's defense in this action to comment about it. All that has been posted is an expert opinion written by the Plaintiff's Expert.

It can be imagined that the Plaintiff has a problem with the fact they themselves (though their Agent) consented to the act which harmed them. ALPA may have told them the pistol aimed at their head would not hurt, but the pilot Reps pulled the trigger with their own hand. Perhaps a better (but less lucrative) suit would be to sue the involved counsel individually for malpractice.

Also, ALPA has both insured its E&O exposure and moved money offshore to manage the risk of a adverse judgement.

So no, this is not as deadly to ALPA as their conduct in other areas which have led pilots to consideration of decertification votes ... JMHO.

NuGuy

Heyas Bar,

I would posit that only a relatively small minority of pilots are really aware of the career destruction that scope failure has caused. Most come to work, fly their trips and go home.

Sure, they might grouse a bit about getting behind a string of barbie jets on taxi out, or maybe complain that all the flights home are on oversold RJs.

But the damage that has been inflicted to careers has been masked, IMHO, by the overall industry fall out. Downgrades, furloughs and paycuts are part and parcel of all downturns, but the mass outsourcing of our jobs has been a huge part of this in this cycle, but hidden by the overall trends, and and thus fairly invisible to the average Joe or Jane pilot.

VERY few, in my opinion and experience, are aware and motivated enough to take the steps necessary to correct it. IMHO, despite some rather ugly missteps by ALPA/DALPA, the DPA does NOT have the horsepower to overcome this. At least not with their current stratagem.

Nu

Carl Spackler

Yup. Just another example of the way ALPA national officers can spin against their own behavior. As is stated on page 8 of the Seham report:

"...As former ALPA president Randolph Babbit testified in justifying ALPA's withholding of financial assistance from the TWA pilots in April 2001: "Why would you give them a whole lot of money if they're not going to be part of ALPA?"

So much for the locals controlling everything. So much for the locals controlling their own finances. So much for ALPA "doing nothing." People like PCL_128 are nothing new. There has always been duplicitous spin-meisters. My question is why ALPA has to do this? Why do they feel they cannot simply come out and tell the truth of why they do what they do? Are they afraid the members would be disgusted?

Indeed.

Carl

Bucking Bar

Indeed

ALPA has it's growth and marketing strategy exactly backwards.

ALPA is alleged to have tried to market itself to the American pilots by misrepresenting the TWA pilots. At SkyWest, ALPA avoided being aggressive in negotiating ASA's scope to avoid offending SkyWest pilots.

How much better would ALPA's position be if our union boldly and aggressively represented its pilots and everyone else got screwed? If ASA used scope as a tool to take flying from the non represented SkyWest pilots the effect would have been to induce SkyWest to join the club.

When ALPA remembers this basic lesson of representation, they will regain relevance.

alfaromeo

Well, Carl, once again you don't let facts get in the way of your diatribes. The TWA MEC had spent every dime of their dues and had been given millions more in OCF and MCF grants. Their final request came for a request from the MCF to file a federal lawsuit. MCF money can only go for specific items related to contract negotiation and strike. It can't be used for lawsuits. The TWA MEC willingly signed onto the agreement to be purchased by American and then decided they wanted to look backwards and blame everyone else. Their claim is that other people "bullied" them into it. Wow, their main defense is that they were too weak to stand up for their own interests. Excellent move.

So the TWA MEC wanted to flush more of OUR money down the drain trying to cover up the fact that they misrepresented their own pilots. Sure, it's easy to see why they were told no.

So, the facts are that the TWA spent every dime of dues money they ever paid. They were given millions more of OUR money to help them out. They screwed the pooch royally in their pursuit of an SLI and wanted to spend more of OUR money to cover their tracks. And by the way, their lawsuit was a bunch of crap also, just like this one.

TheManager

Thing is, that ^^^ is an opinion. Alfa's to be exact. It also has no value. The only opinions that will matter are those of the jury and judges that will hear this case and its appeals. That's of course if ALPA doesn't settle first.

Pineapple Guy

Actually, much of what Alfa stated was pure fact. Whether those facts are true or not is unknown to me, but based on his previous experience, I suspect most are. For example, he states:

1. The TWA MEC had spent every dime of their dues and had been given millions more in OCF and MCF grants.
2. Their final request came for a request from the MCF to file a federal lawsuit.
3. MCF money can only go for specific items related to contract negotiation and strike. It can't be used for lawsuits.
4. The TWA MEC willingly signed onto the agreement to be purchased by American.

Those are either true or false. There is no room for "opinion". If you have prove that they are false, by all means, please let us know. All of us should be interested in the facts.

However, you are correct that ultimately the jury/judge will decide whether the set of facts that can be determined rise to the level of a DFR claim. Time will tell.

scambo1

So what are we sayin'? Is it time to cut AAI adrift?

scambo1

Yeah, I'm just being a jerk...so what.