Delta Pilots Association
05-15-2011, 10:05 AM
#5491
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,913
A press release from ATN ALPA, highlighting the use of the word "outsourcing" that you claim ALPA refuses to use:
Press Release
Source: Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l
On 6:25 pm EST, Wednesday November 4, 2009
ATLANTA--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Union leaders for the AirTran pilots issued the following statement in response to their airline’s announcement that AirTran [NYSE: AAI] has reached an agreement with SkyWest to operate five CRJ-200 aircraft—in SkyWest livery—between seven cities. AirTran pilots, who are represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA), have been in contract negotiations for five years and are seeking guarantees that the company will not farm out work to the lowest bidder.
“The pilots of AirTran are deeply concerned that our management is outsourcing flying, even while the company’s mainline growth has been stagnant for the past two years. While we applaud any moves by the company to increase profitability, we strongly believe that AirTran customers expect and deserve to be flown on AirTran planes with AirTran pilots in the cockpit.
“Outsourcing AirTran flying to a regional carrier runs the risk of diminishing the travel experience in the eyes of our customers, and goes directly against the business model that has made this company a success. AirTran is known for its business class seats, XM Radio and WiFi Internet access, none of which would be provided on a 50-seat Regional Jet (RJ)....
Press Release
Source: Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l
On 6:25 pm EST, Wednesday November 4, 2009
ATLANTA--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Union leaders for the AirTran pilots issued the following statement in response to their airline’s announcement that AirTran [NYSE: AAI] has reached an agreement with SkyWest to operate five CRJ-200 aircraft—in SkyWest livery—between seven cities. AirTran pilots, who are represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l (ALPA), have been in contract negotiations for five years and are seeking guarantees that the company will not farm out work to the lowest bidder.
“The pilots of AirTran are deeply concerned that our management is outsourcing flying, even while the company’s mainline growth has been stagnant for the past two years. While we applaud any moves by the company to increase profitability, we strongly believe that AirTran customers expect and deserve to be flown on AirTran planes with AirTran pilots in the cockpit.
“Outsourcing AirTran flying to a regional carrier runs the risk of diminishing the travel experience in the eyes of our customers, and goes directly against the business model that has made this company a success. AirTran is known for its business class seats, XM Radio and WiFi Internet access, none of which would be provided on a 50-seat Regional Jet (RJ)....
All very interesting considering the word floating around is that ATN ALPA consults with independent counsel (non ALPA) for matters relating to scope.
Nu
05-15-2011, 10:14 AM
#5492
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl
05-15-2011, 10:20 AM
#5493
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,049
Who here is familiar with the NWALPA NSTAR proposal, where mainline seniority list pilots would be sent down to the regionals to fly at regional rates. The proposal came from the MEC and not national, however, management rejected this proposal. Did it ever make it to the bankruptcy judge, what was judge Gropper's take on it?
It is talked about in NWA Zipline publications, I believe 10-8. It morphed into what became Compass.
05-15-2011, 10:26 AM
#5494
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,049
Lets be clear. Cohen, Weiss and Simon, work for their client. If Delta decided that it wished to negotiate effective scope, CW&S would say "Yes Sir!" and go about that task. If the MEC wants political excuses for inaction, CW&S says "yes Sir" and does that task.
Attorneys that practice politics before law don't win many Court cases. But, the checks cash the same either way.
05-15-2011, 10:44 AM
#5495
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
ALPA is hoping to drag others into its world view. Moak was openly critical of the APA's relatively conservative scope position.
Lets be clear. Cohen, Weiss and Simon, work for their client. If Delta decided that it wished to negotiate effective scope, CW&S would say "Yes Sir!" and go about that task. If the MEC wants political excuses for inaction, CW&S says "yes Sir" and does that task.
Attorneys that practice politics before law don't win many Court cases. But, the checks cash the same either way.
Lets be clear. Cohen, Weiss and Simon, work for their client. If Delta decided that it wished to negotiate effective scope, CW&S would say "Yes Sir!" and go about that task. If the MEC wants political excuses for inaction, CW&S says "yes Sir" and does that task.
Attorneys that practice politics before law don't win many Court cases. But, the checks cash the same either way.
Carl
05-15-2011, 11:06 AM
#5496
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
ALPA is hoping to drag others into its world view. Moak was openly critical of the APA's relatively conservative scope position.
Lets be clear. Cohen, Weiss and Simon, work for their client. If Delta decided that it wished to negotiate effective scope, CW&S would say "Yes Sir!" and go about that task. If the MEC wants political excuses for inaction, CW&S says "yes Sir" and does that task.
Attorneys that practice politics before law don't win many Court cases. But, the checks cash the same either way.
Lets be clear. Cohen, Weiss and Simon, work for their client. If Delta decided that it wished to negotiate effective scope, CW&S would say "Yes Sir!" and go about that task. If the MEC wants political excuses for inaction, CW&S says "yes Sir" and does that task.
Attorneys that practice politics before law don't win many Court cases. But, the checks cash the same either way.
Well said!
05-15-2011, 11:08 AM
#5497
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,913
That is something some of us are NOT particularly proud of. There were a lot of really wild stories about what went on behind closed doors.
As I recall, the MEC telegraphed it's position with a sudden softening of it's position on scope about two weeks before the actual agreement came out. As is usually the case with the ALPA Communication playbook, it's what they don't say that is often much more important than what they do say.
It permitted the "vote no" crew to marshall a fair resistance before the spin patrol really got a chance to spool up. The mobilization was so abrupt, some thought that the agreement had been leaked. It got to the point where the polling was showing it was going get voted down.
Then the TDC plan was trotted out to soften the blow, and obviously they got their %50+1.
There were more protections in the Compass thing than survived the merger. There was a narrowbody floor and provisions that Compass could not be sold until there was a 100 seat replacement on the mainline property. Obviously that could have been used for leverage by the joint MCs, but why it wasn't, I will leave to your imagination.
Nu
05-15-2011, 11:37 AM
#5498
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Recovering Airline Pilot
Posts: 460
I remember it clearly, and it was absolutely correct. Apparently you have reading comprehension difficulties, though.
And yet, the ATN MEC was able to put out a scope press release referring to it as "outsourcing," something that you claim ALPA refuses to do. If ALPA National exerts so much power and influence, as you claim, and ALPA National refuses to refer to outsourcing, as you claim, then how did the ATN MEC put out such a press release? Your own arguments collapse in on themselves. The two assertions can't coexist.
In reality, the ATN MEC made the decision to put out this press release, ALPA National staff helped with grammatical editing, then ALPA National staff sent out the press release to the newspapers that the ATN MEC told them to, without any hesitation or argument. It was a non-event.
Do you really think the National Officers spend time posting on these silly message boards?
False. Read Section 60 of the ALPA Administrative Manual. Every dime that your MEC gets is allocated for ahead of time with absolutely zero discretion on the part of ALPA National as to how much you get.
We had our ALPA Contract Administrator and the ALPA Director of Representation at the table for scope negotiations, and we also had ALPA's General Counsel scope expert at the table. In other words, the same people that always do scope work for ALPA MECs. Nothing different.
What on Earth are you talking about? Do you not read my posts at all? For the last 5,000 plus posts here, my main complaint is that our local is hamstrung by a bloated and conflicted national union with its own national agenda. That is the MAIN REASON that I'm supporting a DPA.
In reality, the ATN MEC made the decision to put out this press release, ALPA National staff helped with grammatical editing, then ALPA National staff sent out the press release to the newspapers that the ATN MEC told them to, without any hesitation or argument. It was a non-event.
I'm really glad your posting here pcl...seriously. I'm thrilled that people get to see one of ALPA national's officers at work here.
We had our ALPA Contract Administrator and the ALPA Director of Representation at the table for scope negotiations, and we also had ALPA's General Counsel scope expert at the table. In other words, the same people that always do scope work for ALPA MECs. Nothing different.
05-15-2011, 12:26 PM
#5499
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,913
We had our ALPA Contract Administrator and the ALPA Director of Representation at the table for scope negotiations, and we also had ALPA's General Counsel scope expert at the table. In other words, the same people that always do scope work for ALPA MECs. Nothing different.
Nu
05-15-2011, 03:33 PM
#5500
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Recovering Airline Pilot
Posts: 460
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