Delta Pilots Association
05-14-2011, 02:56 PM
#5451
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,913
Chalk that up to the "not invented here" mentality of a certain segment of the MEC.
This same segment DOES reflect the makeup of the pilots. The same pilots we see on the webboard that carry the same attitude towards everything that is not "of the body", and can't for one second think outside the box.
Despite the will of some of the pilots (from both sides), several resolutions, and clear experience with what management (both DAL and NWA) has done in the past, they STILL went down the same tired path, doing what THEY wanted to do, without even thinking about considering another course of action or point of view.
And of course it has led us to the exact same spot as it has before.
What surprises me is that any of you are surprised at any of this.
Nu
05-14-2011, 03:04 PM
#5452
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,049
Heyas Bar,
Chalk that up to the "not invented here" mentality of a certain segment of the MEC.
This same segment DOES reflect the makeup of the pilots. The same pilots we see on the webboard that carry the same attitude towards everything that is not "of the body", and can't for one second think outside the box.
Despite the will of some of the pilots (from both sides), several resolutions, and clear experience with what management (both DAL and NWA) has done in the past, they STILL went down the same tired path, doing what THEY wanted to do, without even thinking about considering another course of action or point of view.
And of course it has led us to the exact same spot as it has before.
What surprises me is that any of you are surprised at any of this.
Nu
Chalk that up to the "not invented here" mentality of a certain segment of the MEC.
This same segment DOES reflect the makeup of the pilots. The same pilots we see on the webboard that carry the same attitude towards everything that is not "of the body", and can't for one second think outside the box.
Despite the will of some of the pilots (from both sides), several resolutions, and clear experience with what management (both DAL and NWA) has done in the past, they STILL went down the same tired path, doing what THEY wanted to do, without even thinking about considering another course of action or point of view.
And of course it has led us to the exact same spot as it has before.
What surprises me is that any of you are surprised at any of this.
Nu
05-14-2011, 03:22 PM
#5453
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,913
Nu
05-14-2011, 04:18 PM
#5454
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: Recovering Airline Pilot
Posts: 460
Look Bar, you weren't even around when this nightmare started...I was. The "Bargaining Credits" headlines that you constantly trumpet only happened at the end of the nightmare just prior to bankruptcy at NWA. That term in our union letter was a way to save face by our union negotiators who were faced with negotiating with a gun to their heads.
When bankruptcy rolled around, the bargaining credit concept wasn't used to offset the effects of pay raises anymore, it was instead used to give the union credit for cost cuts that the company demanded and claimed in bankruptcy court that they needed. It was always the same concept, just applied differently whether it was a good bargaining cycle or a concessionary bargaining cycle.
05-14-2011, 07:46 PM
#5456
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
ALPA is very quick to state the legal limitations which prevent it from doing it's primary mission of protecting pilots jobs, seniority and longevity. This primary mission is the most important work ALPA does. Not only is this work critical to us, it is critical work to ensure the association's survival.
Carl
05-14-2011, 07:54 PM
#5457
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I'm looking for the actual case files of a bankruptcy that happened several years ago, when I find them, I will post them here. they are about a steel company that tried to use bankruptcy to get out of its union scope contract and hire outsourced workers. After a long legal battle and several appeals, it was ruled that scope relief is illegal by any means unless the workers specifically agree to it. Forced scope relief by the company interferes with the right of American workers to form labor unions.
In other words, ALPA's crack legal team failed to tell you that management was not allowed to touch section 1 during bankruptcy. I wonder why?????
In other words, ALPA's crack legal team failed to tell you that management was not allowed to touch section 1 during bankruptcy. I wonder why?????
Carl
05-14-2011, 08:05 PM
#5458
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Two points:
1. "ALPA" doesn't do anything. Pilots make decisions, then the national organization gets unfairly blamed for decisions made by pilots at the local level. ALPA is not some all-powerful entity that forces pilots to make certain decisions. Pilots ignore the advice of the attorneys almost as often as they follow it, and it almost always bites them in the ass later when they do. The decision to sell scope was not made by ALPA national officers, or ALPA attorneys, or anyone else with an office in Herndon or on Massachusetts Ave. It was made by Negotiating Committees, MECs, and pilot groups at each individual airline.
1. "ALPA" doesn't do anything. Pilots make decisions, then the national organization gets unfairly blamed for decisions made by pilots at the local level. ALPA is not some all-powerful entity that forces pilots to make certain decisions. Pilots ignore the advice of the attorneys almost as often as they follow it, and it almost always bites them in the ass later when they do. The decision to sell scope was not made by ALPA national officers, or ALPA attorneys, or anyone else with an office in Herndon or on Massachusetts Ave. It was made by Negotiating Committees, MECs, and pilot groups at each individual airline.
The locals depend a great deal on national for everything from funding to legal and financial experts...not to mention negotiations "experts". For you to insinuate that pilots make all the decisions and "ALPA doesn't do anything" is utterly false and you know it. The truth is that ALPA national has ALWAYS managed the process of local decision making by complete control of finances and experts. The new ALPA president flat out stated that his highest priority in negotiations is to "use all of ALPA national's resources to ensure that contracts benefit the profession as a whole...and not be self-serving.
Your post is a shameful distortion.
Carl
05-14-2011, 08:18 PM
#5459
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I know how important it is for you to insult pilots as "idiots"...especially senior major pilots, but you're just showing your ignorance of history.
Carl
05-14-2011, 08:22 PM
#5460
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I ask a lot of questions because I'm not an expert.
Carl
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