Mesabah

Study the Mesaba bankruptcy and its 1113(c) process. We had our contract thrown out and an injunction filed against us for striking. The company was asking for a 19% pay cut as well as scope relief to allow its other carrier to operate greater than 19 seat aircraft at Big Sky. The judge abrogated our contract, however, he left the scope contract in place; Since he did not have the authority to throw that section out.

The company never imposed a contract on us however, instead we were given a 3% pay cut with 4 year snap backs to our former pay. The pilot group here voted yes on the contract as rumors started circulating that CRJ 900's were coming to the airline. The scope battle however did not end there, it continued as Big Sky was given a contract with Delta airlines to operate a hub out of Boston. Management went judge shopping around the country to find a judge that would allow Big Sky to operate greater than 19 seat aircraft. They wound up suing a Continental pilot in Texas since he was the only ALPA pilot living in the district of the judge they wanted. After the legal battle ensued, the result was the same, our scope contract remained intact. Finally, in a last ditch effort management offered to buy out the scope from the pilots at Mesaba. I believe the offer reached as high as $20,000 per pilot. However, our pilots stood firm and did not sell out, shortly thereafter, Big Sky ceased operations.

PCL_128

You've got some things mixed up here. The judge never issued an injunction against a strike at Mesaba. That precedent didn't happen until later against the NWA flight attendants. The judge in the Mesaba case balked at making a ruling on that issue.

As far as the scope, you're misinterpreting the ruling. As you know, the Mesaba contract had a separate Holding Company Letter, which bound MAIR Holdings to the scope language in the Mesaba contract. MAIR never went into bankruptcy. Only its wholly owned subsidiary, Mesaba Aviation, went into bankruptcy. Therefore, the judge ruled that the Mesaba contract could be abrogated, but the Holding Company Letter, and therefore your scope, could not be, because that agreement was with MAIR, and MAIR was not in bankruptcy. The ruling had absolutely nothing to do with whether scope is off the table for concessions in bankruptcy. To the contrary, it seems pretty clear under current law that everything in a contract is subject to abrogation in an 1113(c) situation. Assuming that scope is safe is a very dangerous assumption.

Mesabah

Judge blocks strike threat at Mesaba - Business - US business - Aviation - msnbc.com

I have the pdf file of the actual injunction ruling, I can post it here if you want.

Management had asked to treat the MAIR letter as part of the contract. The judge refused and left that between the union and MAIR. When that failed, management then asked to make the necessary section 1 modifications to permit MAIR to fly the larger aircraft. Once again the Judge refused. I have that ruling on pdf. as well.

Edit: Also in the filing is Mesaba's attempt to make modifications to the AMFA section 1 scope clause, that failed as well.(judge kept scope intact)

PCL_128

You're right. Thanks for jogging my memory. I had to go digging through some of my old documents. The NWA flight attendant injunction came first, in August of that year, setting the precedent. Prior to that, the Mesaba judge had balked at issuing the injunction against a strike in July. After the NWA ruling, the precedent was set, and Mesaba employees were screwed.

Again, that has nothing to do with scope being protected from 1113(c). That's just an issue of the MAIR letter not being subject to the bankruptcy courts, because MAIR wasn't in bankruptcy.

Now that I would be interested in seeing. Have a link?

acl65pilot

Of course it is political. It happens when one job gets "value" over the other. It really is ingrained in many of us. A telltale sign is when someone tell you to worry more about the WB jets and those seats than those little RJ seats. It is merely a distraction. Unions should worry about every seat.

scambo1

Isnt this becoming painfully clear?

While I am not an insider, I am trying to look at scope recapture from many angles...I cannot fathom why our former MEC chair kicked compass (and to a degree mesaba) to the curb without coming to the conclusion that there had to be something tangible that he personally gained...besides being alpa nat'l prez. It just does not add up. (not making an accusation, it just doesnt make any sense to me).

An insider who knows our scope inside and out has got to be able to see the big picture clearer than me. Alaska growth/ horizon outsourced via skywest is just another end around. Republic has got to be challenged by us (DALPA) regardless of the steps required.

I am not a radical, but some radical action IS required. JM is certainly not the answer. We are fiddling while the house is burning down around us.

acl65pilot

Scambo;
I know "why" they decided to divest compass from our MEC Structure. I to this day disagree with it, and know it was a not the wisest of decisions. Many feel that this seat segment; 76 and below, is dead, and much better for DAL to allow third part operators fly it, than to deal with it in house.

The end effect of CPS is, we get to flow their pilots which is good, but the jets end up at a crack outfit (TSH) who does no favors for its pilots. Pilots come, jobs do not, and the jets are off of DAL's balance sheet. A ten year agreement is reached and by 2020, the argument is that this seat segment will be dead. As a result, it is not worth paying for, as the economics will bring the majority of that back in house.

Big gamble, and as pilots we need to state that all jobs are valuable, and as a result even if we "know" that flying is not coming back without a huge cost, or a legislative rendering, they matter.

As for who, will do what to lead us from here? Our top DALPA guys is capable, and I assume willing. Potential energy is great, but it needs to be turned in to kinetic energy. Transparency of process is needed. The sad fact is that many pilots do not trust ALPA or DALPA because perception has been able to roost since CH11. Both entities need to showcase successes and not in the normal manner. I have offered up my suggestions, and one thing is key. Perception is not reality. Change perception and add that transparency may pilots crave and the continuum changes almost immediately.

There were a few resolutions from 44, and 20 that dealt with this at the last round of LEC meetings. We will see how the MEC adapts them to work for our group.

Carl Spackler

Look Bar, you weren't even around when this nightmare started...I was. The "Bargaining Credits" headlines that you constantly trumpet only happened at the end of the nightmare just prior to bankruptcy at NWA. That term in our union letter was a way to save face by our union negotiators who were faced with negotiating with a gun to their heads. They should have just said: "We're going to get our a$$s$ kicked here and its going to hurt bad." Instead, they tried to make it sound that giving away more scope was something they actually got something for in return (bargaining credits). The reality is that management told us that they would just get everything they wanted anyway in bankruptcy, so you better give us everything or we're going C11. Of course we know they did it anyway shortly thereafter.

Total BS Bar. Again, I was there and you weren't. In the beginning, we were not asked to fly these airplanes and responded by saying that it was beneath us. We were asked to fly these airplanes FOR THE SAME $19/HOUR WAGES THAT THE COMMUTER GUYS WERE BEING PAID. To that, we responded in the negative.

Our failure back then in the majors was to believe management when they said that small jet service was critical to our survival by better feeding our hubs and making the majors grow as a result. Management never had any intention to do that as we now know. Their only intention was to outsource as many of us as possible.

That's the history Bar. Not this divisive BS that so many people like you work so hard to continue fostering.

Carl

Bucking Bar

^^^

Very accurate post.

The Delta side felt Compass was a mess, it was not their mess and they did not want to mess with it. The resulting vote went down pre-merger lines communicating to management the fracture in our MEC.

Bucking Bar

Hey Hipshot, ready FIRE, aim.

You have no idea. We can carry this on via PM if you want to get personal.

As for this thread, the readers can decide what information they find more credible. Your "opinions" or your MEC Chairman's own writings in your MEC's publications?