satchip

Ding Ding! And it's people like that who will get us creamed. They will fill out a card, not knowing who or what they are voting for and the next thing you know you are worse off than you were.

NuGuy

Heyas Sat,

Lets ASSUME for a moment that the DPA has 2,500 cards. And these cards represent people who really want to change the way the system works.

If only 1/4 of those people... that's a scosh over 600, got actively involved in their LECs, then it would cause a complete housecleaning of DALPA.

And I don't mean cow towing to the already elected reps. With 100 people in DTW, ATL, SLC or wherever, you can effectively throw the current reps out and put in whoever you want.

Assuming there are a few reps on the MEC who already are with your plan, or are at least smart enough to pour pee out of a boot and see which way the wind is blowing, you don't even need to do this in every base. Just a targeted few would be enough to put the rest in line.

Then YOU have all the marbles. A MEC doing your bidding, and a cash cow at ALPA National. You think they're going to call and **** you off? No way, you are the largest group in ALPA...without you, they are broke. When you call and say jump, THEY say "how high?"

Damn, I hate to be the one doing all the heavy lifting around here.

Nu

satchip

100 people might be able to force recall but the entire council has to vote on new reps.

I can't tell if you are agreeing with me or not. I think your post proves the nefarious motives of the DPA. If the DPA'ers were truly interested in change they would do what you wrote.

scambo1

I agree with you Satch. The DPA already has all the bodies it needs, it just needs to turn those bodies in horsepower/directed energy and they would succeed at their goal...assuming their goal is what they have stated.

NuGuy

Exactly. The DPA has all the people they need to force a change.

It won't be voluntary at this point, though. Too much testosterone involved now.

Nu

satchip

I think this is a further indictment of the DPA. It proves my assertion that is is a palace coup attempt by some former powerful people who no longer are. They are more interested in re creating their fiefdoms than helping Delta pilots.

I talked to a good friend who is a DPA guy. I asked him who are the leaders, who will be in charge. The only one he could name was TC, his neighbor(sort of). He said when they are certified they will vote in "the best people". The problem with that is "the best people" will have to run. I bet the instigators of this movement who still remain in the shadows are just waiting for that day so they can suddenly appear and be on the ballot. It's not the first time this has happened in history.

I also bet that if they did as Nu suggests, they would be roundly defeated. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.

NuGuy

Heyas Sat,

Just to be clear, I don't support either side.

At this point, both sides are just two dogs trying to **** on as many trees as they can to mark off territory. Doesn't matter who's property it's on. At this point, actually doing anything for the membership (IE us), is just a side show.


Nu

satchip

That is why I like reading most your your posts. You and New are thoughtful people even though we don't agree a lot of times. I value intelligent arguments on the other side. Bluster, lies, and demagoguery, not so much.

Oh, BTW, it's Satch.

Whidbey

Satchip,

What do you define as progress? If it's accepting modest gains after living with pay cuts for so long, I don't call that progress. Not for the AA pilots and not for the profession. I'm sure APA was operating under the assumption that the NMB was going to act in it's proper role, which is has not.

The APA is negotiating on the tilted playing field the NMB has set for them. I'm sure many in APA and at AA feel that accepting only modest gains would constitute a tacit acceptance of a permanent reset of the value of an airline pilot. I'm sure they rightly pointed out that the "jug" of pilot pay wasn't emptied drop by drop, it was dumped out. My hat is off to them for taking a stand, at least for as long as they have.

A few assumptions seem to underlie your statements on this issue.

The first is that the inability to reach an agreement is a failure solely on the part of APA. I assure you, AA management didn't come to the table with what they considered a "fair and reasonable" contract. It is their job as servants of the stockholder to get a contract signed for as little money paid to the pilots as possible. They're playing out their advantage given to them by the NMB, hoping that the resolve of the pilots will erode over time, that the pilots will eventually come to (what seems to be your) attitude that "something is better than nothing."

Remember, Thucydides said "the strong do what they will and the weak suffer what they must." At the end of the day these negotiations aren't about reason. They're about power and resolve. We seem to lack the latter because none of us realize that ultimately, we possess the former.

If too many Delta pilots aren't willing to at least project the attitude that we're worth at least what we were ten years ago, we're in serious trouble.

Very respectfully,

Whidbey

Pineapple Guy

Nice quote. But if we have all this power and resolve, how come the APA has nothing to show for it after 5 years? You certainly can't argue they don't have the resolve. Why has that produced nothing, if in fact they have the power you proclaim?