Delta Pilots Association
04-21-2011, 06:35 PM
#5143
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
04-21-2011, 06:54 PM
#5144
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: No to large RJs
Posts: 369
Dawgs,
Objectively, you are wrong. Since you used ACL as an example, he makes a good one. Lets consider how "ALPA" screwed him.
In money terms, ALPA's facilitation of outsourcing will cost ACL something in the neighborhood of $2,000,000. ($50K for 30 years + interest) and before you say it, if he got hired in the ultra competitive talent pool that existed in early 2007, he'd have been a very strong candidate amongst those at the end of 2001.
Objectively, you are wrong. Since you used ACL as an example, he makes a good one. Lets consider how "ALPA" screwed him.
- ACL's airline was acquired in 1999. ALPA, changed it's Constitution and Bylaws to avoid an "operational integration" trigger which would have made it policy to support a merger with his airline. His airline, which operated its own code under its own marketing, enjoyed feeder arrangements with other majors and flew 120 seat jets. It was also the most pfoitable airline in the history of man, based on a percentage of revenue. It had never furloughed a pilot and always purchased more airplanes than it ordered.
- As a result of ALPA interference in scope negotiations, ACLs airline was unable to protect its flying and it's share of Delta Connection work went from 53% to something less than 17% as "his" work outsourced from Delta was further diluted to non union carriers and Teamster's members.
- ACL was to interview with Delta back in 2001 (which is why he was one of the first in 2007). Outsourcing delayed his move by six years
- As a result of the foregoing, ACL lost seniority, twice
- As a result of the foregoing, ACL lost longevity, twice
- As a result of the foregoing, ACL's in a stagnant position - few upgrades
- As a result of the foregoing, ACL's quality of life is harmed by DC9 pilots senior to him bidding "his" equipment as their jobs are outsourced to RJ's
- ACL did not enjoy the same employment protections and rights offered to rampers, gate agents and of course, managers.
In money terms, ALPA's facilitation of outsourcing will cost ACL something in the neighborhood of $2,000,000. ($50K for 30 years + interest) and before you say it, if he got hired in the ultra competitive talent pool that existed in early 2007, he'd have been a very strong candidate amongst those at the end of 2001.
If you want to go that route, I should have had at least $500,000 more in my pocket before interest. You both are trying to attach bitterness to why people support DPA. I have always felt there was a major conflict within ALPA and would support independence (pre or post 9-11) with the current structure. It is a flawed structure and needs to be corrected. All ALPA major pilot groups have suffered because of this conflicted structure.
My point to ACL is simple. He has benefitted while many of us rode the pine. He had a Captain seat probably making 70-80K while mainline FO's were unemployed. ASA continued hiring. Things weren't stagnant at ASA. It's hard for me to have someone in that position say people who choose DPA are just simply frustrated. I am trying to correct the problem so future junior Delta pilots don't have to endure what I did (watch your company hire all the while laying you off--aided by our own union). They still continue to fail us today regarding scope. I say his opinion might be slightly different if our roles were reversed.
I can tell you that regardless of my furlough, I would support DPA. All my furlough did was reinforce what I already knew to be true, a divided house can't stand.
04-21-2011, 07:19 PM
#5145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: 320B
Posts: 781
Easy. They have been very clear from the start that the pilots will determine who serves in what capacities at the proper time (i.e. when DPA is certified as our union). It would be inappropriate for them to select an administration and individual representatives without the rest of the pilot group.
Well, you know from the web site that this is TC's brain child and he is very instrumental in getting it off the ground. If you look at the link that was posted way earlier in this thread, you can get two more names. Next, you can ask your buddies that spent the week in ATL harassing... err, I mean monitoring... the DPA representatives during "surge week." I'm sure they have a list of names... and even some pictures!
I transited through the ATL pilot lounge a handful of times last week and randomly ran into two different Captains (both ATL based) who volunteered their time to support DPA for the ATL surge week. It's really shouldn't be that hard for you to find out what you want to know... if, of course, you really want to know! 
Well, you know from the web site that this is TC's brain child and he is very instrumental in getting it off the ground. If you look at the link that was posted way earlier in this thread, you can get two more names. Next, you can ask your buddies that spent the week in ATL harassing... err, I mean monitoring... the DPA representatives during "surge week." I'm sure they have a list of names... and even some pictures!
I transited through the ATL pilot lounge a handful of times last week and randomly ran into two different Captains (both ATL based) who volunteered their time to support DPA for the ATL surge week. It's really shouldn't be that hard for you to find out what you want to know... if, of course, you really want to know!
04-21-2011, 07:30 PM
#5146
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
I wouldn't know. I am pre-merger Delta. I don't know TC but I like what he's done so far with DPA. That's all that matters to me. FWIW, I do know one of the other founders of DPA who is pre-merger Delta. He's a very sharp guy and I trust his judgment. Bottom line for me is that DALPA has totally failed to even begin addressing our bankruptcy era compensation and massive loss of jobs due to outsourcing. Can't even get them to identify restoration as an objective. I'll take a relative unknown any day over a known failure.
04-21-2011, 08:14 PM
#5147
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Mainline scope erosion grew the regional ranks. Plain and simple. As Bar so eloquently states, "I find it morally repugnant that we would allow our union to trade one member's job to benefit another member."
Again, how does putting 1500 mainline pilots on the street, gaining 2000 IBT and non-union pilots help ALPA?
For that matter, how would putting 1500 mainline pilots on the street and gaining 2000 regional pilots help ALPA?
I'll help you....IT DOESN'T.
The $$$$ is much, much better from a mainline pilot's dues than from a regional pilot's dues.
Again, how does putting 1500 mainline pilots on the street, gaining 2000 IBT and non-union pilots help ALPA?
For that matter, how would putting 1500 mainline pilots on the street and gaining 2000 regional pilots help ALPA?
I'll help you....IT DOESN'T.
The $$$$ is much, much better from a mainline pilot's dues than from a regional pilot's dues.
04-22-2011, 05:53 AM
#5148
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Mainline scope erosion grew the regional ranks. Plain and simple. As Bar so eloquently states, "I find it morally repugnant that we would allow our union to trade one member's job to benefit another member."
Again, how does putting 1500 mainline pilots on the street, gaining 2000 IBT and non-union pilots help ALPA?
For that matter, how would putting 1500 mainline pilots on the street and gaining 2000 regional pilots help ALPA?
I'll help you....IT DOESN'T.
The $$$$ is much, much better from a mainline pilot's dues than from a regional pilot's dues.
Again, how does putting 1500 mainline pilots on the street, gaining 2000 IBT and non-union pilots help ALPA?
For that matter, how would putting 1500 mainline pilots on the street and gaining 2000 regional pilots help ALPA?
I'll help you....IT DOESN'T.
The $$$$ is much, much better from a mainline pilot's dues than from a regional pilot's dues.
Shiz;
The mainline pilot who gets furloughed is probably going to come back to work at the mainline at some time. This means if his company is an ALPA carrier, he will be a dues payer for life - despite his furlough.
The non affiliated regional pilot (IBT), if gained by ALPA, is an ALPA dues payer then.
In other words, ALPA benefits from both scenarios, furlough or not.
Its like the cheating husband, the wife (of 20+ years (DALPA) gets upset) but if she doesnt divorce you (DPA) you still have your secretary (RAH) to chase, court, date and eventually win. All the husband has to do is convince his wife that she cant make it on her own.
Try to look at this strategically, not tactically. There are also blind corners and hidden traps that no body is really seeing...this is why scope has to be ironclad - and why we must go to the mat over RAH...otherwise, the job keeps on swirlin down the toilet.
04-22-2011, 07:09 AM
#5150
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 710
Many of us have already mailed in our card. Last I heard the numbers were stalled around 2,000 or so. I am a proponent of getting 51% of the necessary cards if anything to see a legitimate response and team step forward from DPA, then a final decision whether to switch away from ALPA can be made. However, if that day should come and anyone on the team is a former red book pilot, significant credibility will be lost. When the fNWA contract negotiation team decided a junior fNWA pilot would have less DC than a future newhire at the combined company, credibility and trust was severally damaged. Of course this pales in comparison to the mid-seniority pilot that took an abysmal cut to his DB for a DC thats less than a newhire. I'm betting a DPA launch from the South side would've carried more credibility goi ng forward. Best of luck, for all of us.
Last edited by TOGA LK; 04-22-2011 at 10:41 AM.
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