DAL 88 Driver

Okay, let's examine that a little closer, ACL.

"Loyalty to ALPA has to do with unity of a profession" - ALPA has spent the past decade trying to be all things to all pilots. They've increased their ranks dramatically with regional pilots, while legacy pilots have seen our compensation dramatically cut and massive numbers of our jobs outsourced (to the regional pilots). If unity is a "spread the wealth" scheme... well, sorry, but I don't want any part of that. Now if you're talking unity within the Delta pilot group to achieve restoration of the standard of living we all expected when we got into this career, then sign me up! But I haven't seen any signs whatsoever of anything like that from DALPA or ALPA National.

"What the union does for our pilots each and every day" - What does ALPA do that no one else could? Keep us at bankruptcy/emergency pay 5 years after the bankruptcy/emergency has been over? (Okay, that was a cheap shot... well, relative to this discussion anyway ) But, seriously, wouldn't $30 million of pilot dues buy just as good if not better attorneys, financial analysis, aeromedical advice, negotiating advice, etc.? And wouldn't it be better if the only consideration by these "hired guns" is what's best for the Delta pilots?

Carl Spackler

Without question. There were tons of people during that time from the military, corporate, freight, and foreign carriers that were TURNED DOWN!

What a warm, sweet, and lovely emotional tribute.

Carl

Reroute

So who decides which resolutions should be revisited? How far back should they look? Should the current MEC revisit previous resolutions that were voted on by an MEC with different reps, maybe even from different airlines? If the MEC Administration picks and chooses which resolutions to revisit wont they be accused of cherry picking resolutions that only support the "secret agenda?"

Or perhaps a better approach is for the line pilots to decide which resolutions should be considered by this MEC.

DAL 88 Driver

When a resolution passes overwhelmingly and is sent to the MEC, this is what's being done. Now, I realize it wasn't technically this MEC that ignored (oh excuse me, "received") the resolutions. But it happened at the tail end of the previous administration with very recent resolutions. I seriously doubt the will of the pilots of those LEC's has changed since then. I think you are making excuses, and I think the current MEC administration views those resolutions the same way the previous administration did. Otherwise, they would have revisited them.

tsquare

If you really think that alpa national unifies the pilots as a group, then you are smoking crack. Just ask everybody who stood by and watched the pensions being taken from the USAir guys.. and did nothing... then us. then United.... no sir.. that is where I think you are wearing extreme rose colored glasses in your loyalty to the national ASSociation. They are there for one reason and one reason only.. to support the individual... I say again.. individual associations under their umbrella.... that and to milk as much money from them as possible....

DAWGS

Your reality and mine are not the same and you would be wise to not make all these assumptions about DPA members. Carl sums up the reasons quite well for my support of DPA. It has nothing to do with taking sides, perception or emotion and everything to do with Delta pilot's dues and efforts going toward what's best for Delta pilots. No outside influence or agenda.

Having an outsourced job and growth at a regional while mainline guys sit the pine was a benefit to you and you know it. It is ok to admit it. You are in good company. The fact you fail to acknowledge this fact helps me understand why you don't see ALPA's conflict.


It is not the people, but the structure. You have a totally different philosophy and I get it (be part of the collective), just don't put DPA members in a nice little tidy corner, because you obviously don't have all the facts before you pass judgement.

Jesse

Thank you, thank you very much. (just an excuse to repost, in all honesty)

satchip

And DPA doesn't have an agenda? Jeeze Louise, that's all they have. The shadowy leaders behind DPA are all agenda, namely theirs and regaining power. Other than that they got nothing, zip, zero, nada. Don't believe me? Just look at their website. No constitution, no reps, no by laws, no plans on how to achieve "restoration", nothing.

DAL 88 Driver

The DPA agenda is to represent Delta pilots... and only Delta pilots. I can live with that agenda. I cannot live with an agenda that helps regional pilot groups at the expense of the Delta pilot group.

Furthermore, DPA has clearly stated that it will be member-driven... i.e. objective will be set by the Delta pilots. Is that what we have now? I'm sure you disagree, since all you care about is not getting furloughed... but I have no doubt that what we have now is compromised by an ALPA National agenda. There has been no focus or apparent effort on restoring our profession and our careers. The only possible rationale I can even think of for this total lack of appropriate representation is that an agenda other than just the Delta pilot's agenda is in play here. I want that stopped. And DPA is a way to stop it.

And your characterization of DPA leaders as "shadowy" people who are just trying to advance their own individual agendas and "regain power" is completely off base. You have no proof or even any evidence of anything like that... on their web site or otherwise. Yet you spout it off as if it were a fact. Sounds like you may be the one with an "agenda."

Bucking Bar

Dawgs,

Objectively, you are wrong. Since you used ACL as an example, he makes a good one. Lets consider how "ALPA" screwed him.

• ACL's airline was acquired in 1999. ALPA, changed it's Constitution and Bylaws to avoid an "operational integration" trigger which would have made it policy to support a merger with his airline. His airline, which operated its own code under its own marketing, enjoyed feeder arrangements with other majors and flew 120 seat jets. It was also the most pfoitable airline in the history of man, based on a percentage of revenue. It had never furloughed a pilot and always purchased more airplanes than it ordered.
• As a result of ALPA interference in scope negotiations, ACLs airline was unable to protect its flying and it's share of Delta Connection work went from 53% to something less than 17% as "his" work outsourced from Delta was further diluted to non union carriers and Teamster's members.
• ACL was to interview with Delta back in 2001 (which is why he was one of the first in 2007). Outsourcing delayed his move by six years
• As a result of the foregoing, ACL lost seniority, twice
• As a result of the foregoing, ACL lost longevity, twice
• As a result of the foregoing, ACL's in a stagnant position - few upgrades
• As a result of the foregoing, ACL's quality of life is harmed by DC9 pilots senior to him bidding "his" equipment as their jobs are outsourced to RJ's
• ACL did not enjoy the same employment protections and rights offered to rampers, gate agents and of course, managers.

ACL has plenty 'o reasons to want change with ALPA. But he's smart enough to realize that even with our union's problems it offers a better chance at restoring this industry than does any alternatives presented thus far.

In money terms, ALPA's facilitation of outsourcing will cost ACL something in the neighborhood of $2,000,000. ($50K for 30 years + interest) and before you say it, if he got hired in the ultra competitive talent pool that existed in early 2007, he'd have been a very strong candidate amongst those at the end of 2001.