Carl Spackler

Jesse...you are the man!

Carl

DAWGS

You haven't been on the short end of the ALPA stick yet, and I stress yet. You benefited with all the RJ growth while mainline furloughed. Saying it makes us feel good insults the intelligence of those who support DPA. I guess we all aren't as enlightened as you ACL. I don't like coming across like an arse, I just think you are way out of line.

acl65pilot

Fair enough. You are entitled to your opinion too.

First, I do not see DALPA taking my side or your side, they take the side of all Delta Pilots. If anything pay rates and percentages in relation to "A" hourly rates have gone up for First Officers. Second, ALPA is an easy target, and people like to shoot without all of the facts. Perception is powerful, and when one is full of emotion without all of the facts, perception sways a decision. Third, I did not benefit from the RJ's. It merely was what I flew when the Props went away because there was no major to get hired to, Fourth, you assume I could not find someone way to make an (d)ALPA decision all about me, I can, but choose not too. We have a MEC Council that has varying seniority and experience, it weighs all of the positions and takes a consensus vote. It is of the same mindset that Block Representation will try to achieve. Not every pilot no position can or will be happy about every consensus vote. That is reality.

I am sorry you feel slighted by ALPA. Hindsight is always 20-20. After just having a nice long talk with one of my reps, I feel confident that he has our best interests in mind. Many people that have sent in a card have a issue with the ppl of ALPA, and because of these people, they cannot use the mechanisms in place to further their wants. I say change the people if you want, because that is where the most effective change will come from. DPA should be thinking across these line as well.

DAL 88 Driver

That statement is so far off the mark it's not even funny (literally, it's not funny at all). The MEC administration has an agenda. It doesn't matter what kind of input they get... resolutions... whatever. They have proven that they will stick to their agenda. They will try to control the message, reeducate the pilots, and manage expectations. I've seen it time after time after time. (And no, it's not "black helicopters"... it's the truth!) They are NOT going to change! And so many guys have given up in frustration... just disengaged... you are never going to get enough people to participate to get these clowns recalled.

So, from where I sit, something like DPA is the only possible solution. They got 2300 cards so far. That is not an insignificant number! And with this RAH thing, I suspect they are about to get a whole bunch more. When the momentum shifts... and we finally have an association representing us that is solely focused on the agenda of the Delta pilots and on putting our profession and our careers back on track, then you will see many more become engaged and we will finally have that "unity" you keep talking about. Sorry, ACL, I know that's not what you want to hear... but that's the only possibility I see for it to happen.

acl65pilot

I know you do. I am not there yet, not by a long shot.

How many resolutions have been "Received" since the new administration took over? The reps have stated repeatedly that they are not in that business any more. Until they prove otherwise, lets give them credit.

On the RAH thing, firing from the hip is dangerous and it is wise to have all of the facts first. I suspect that given the wording of that Communication from the MEC, they are doing just that. They will be judged by this action going forward. Lets remember that in that same communication they decided to file another Section 1 Group Grievance of equal importance. Might what to check around and see how long they were gathering facts on that once before they hit the "fire" button.

DAL 88 Driver

You don't really want to go down that road, do you? If the new administration really cared about this, they could have easily dusted off the resolutions that were "received" and revisited them. In fact, when a member of your council suggested that to one of your reps, he was told that the resolution would have to be resubmitted to the local council from scratch and voted on all over again.

From what I've seen so far, I think this "new administration" is pretty much the same as the old administration. They are just putting up some window dressing with more communications to try and make us lowly line pilots feel better. But the substance is still not there. We still have no stated objective. And we are still acting as if there is no urgency in restoring our profession, our compensation, and our jobs. SSDD.

As for the rest of your post (on the RAH stuff), I'll let someone else take that apart. We've got several people on this board who see that for what it is.

scambo1

How is "a turn trip with no rest break" = 6.5 hours not leading the industry?

Louisville to Ft Wayne to Louisville = 6.5 hours, I'll trade in the 777 for that tomorrow.

Carl Spackler

That may be the way you run your life, but it's sure not the way I run mine. Your "decision making" process is full of emotion and perception with regard to ALPA. You see the clear facts with your own eyes with regard to the lack of section 1 defense and the clear conflict of interest with ALPA representing both sides of a competing interest. Yet you shut your eyes and cover your ears due to loyalty, perception and a strong emotional attachment to ALPA. Your paragraph above is one you should study, and try to avoid yourself.

Wrong. One or more of the majors has been hiring fairly consistently since 1979. You flew RJ's because you chose to build your experience that way.

Wrong again. There is ONE position that EVERY pilot agrees with. It is the position of outsourcing pilot jobs, and DALPA just made that a much easier process for management. THAT'S reality.

That is a total mischaracterization of DAWG's post. He doesn't "feel slighted", he sounds to me like he's done with ALPA due to its many failures. Quit trying to describe guys' fact based decisions as emotional tantrums. You only make yourself look more duplicitous.

Wrong again. Most people that have turned in DPA cards have done so because of the structure of ALPA...not its people. People come and go, structure and bureaucracy survives all.

That's not what DPA is thinking at all. There are many current people within DALPA that will likely win elections in a DPA. But then they will not be hampered by the national ambitions and strategy of ALPA. And THAT will make all the difference in the world.

Carl

Carl Spackler

They could have gathered all the facts they wanted, and we would still have been OK. DALPA didn't do that. DALPA put out an email that flatly makes management's case for them with regard to single carrier status and that having NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on our current section 1. It was a precedent setting email, and one I'll bet Delta management couldn't have dictated any better if they had written it themselves.

You need to get a clue here acl. This battle for scope has just been lost. Our next contract will now hinge on a scope that sunsets current contracts and provides other measures to stop outsourcing. We'll probably have to strike over it, but Delta management will be in the position of weakness over the public's perception on this. The public and not even the NMB will side with a management team that wants to fight its employees for the right to be outsourced. That's our next battle. And will be a strike battle.

Carl

acl65pilot

Carl;That airline also requires how much Turbine PIC or military equivalent?

Do you really think that SWA would have been able to hire the numbers they did with out the regionals? (With the TPIC requirement)

BTW my loyalty to ALPA has to do with unity of a profession and what the union does for our pilots each and every day.