satchip

Here's a little bit of heresy, but would that be so bad? Would absorbing 1300 Pinnacle guys to bring that flying back in house be too much of a sacrifice? As a bottom of the list guy I would be the most impacted by more people coming on top but it might be worth it to recapture outsourced small jet flying. It might not even go to arbitration. Cut them a good enough deal and we could avoid that wild card.

Frontier/RAH is not a totaly valid example. Frontier was a distress sale.

Fly4hire

How many cards do they have 2000? 2500? Aren't half of them expiring soon and need to be renewed? Still well short of what is needed to even get a ballot.

While I appreciate their desire to change even if I don't agree with the method, so far it appears they are even less effective than ALPA at changing the way business is done.

The only message that is being sent to ALPA is that they are not a serious threat and that ALPA can continue business as usual.

acl65pilot

Bar;
You and I have discussed that as well. We do not care how Delta organizes their financial backing for their aircraft, we only care about the fact that a Delta Pilot is flying those jets. Ergo, DAL cannot afford X jet and wants another airline to "own" them, that is their business, but we will be flying them. We do not care who the "owner" is on that little piece of paper next to the door, we just want to the be the pilot group flying them.

That makes a ton of sense, and should be one of the avenues we explore. We also need to look at sun-setting these ASA's, so that we put in place a proviso that stops the continued renewal of these agreements. You have to have both of these concepts take hold to move beyond the position we are in now. Can the concepts and contractual provisions be a little different than a true sunset? Yep, they sure can, but you have to have written commitments from the company that will transcend leadership teams that commit the airline to stopping outsourcing and start in-sourcing their product. Most of this is debt driven, and not pilot driven. It is all about money and the appearance of financial health.

Like you and I have said, first you need the commitment to engage in this, and then you need the support. Either way, the current practices will need to change as the current generation of RJ's becomes obsolete in the next ten years. We sell the next generation of small gauge or we hold the ground. We decide to unify as pilots not as separate pilot groups against this model, or frankly nothing will change.

I understand the idea of not wanting our RJ brothers and sisters no have to reset longevity, that is important. Longevity and seniority are totally different.

On the Republic/F9 deal, simply put being the acquiring carrier carriers a lot of weight as it did in this SLI.

Splash

Your perspective has lured me back into the fray. I think you have nailed the unforeseen consequences of the failure of the organizers. As soon as the DPA time line started sliding, and they began announcing some card numbers, I started hearing the fall back claim of "success".

I'm not sure the organizers and supporters understand that their crusade could deepen the flaws. When it's all over I predict none of them will be willing to be accountable for that.

Bucking Bar

Which "this" do you refer? Surely you do not mean Delta & NWA do you?

Frankly, all that merger proved is being a minority affords the luxury of being much tougher in negotiations and arbitration. Being the majority requires a much more conservative position to avoid harm on a macro basis.

Powerful minorities can be tactical. Majorities have to be strategic.

TOGA LK

+1^

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DAL 88 Driver

Well, I guess it depends on your definition of "soon." From the DPA FAQ's:

Is it true that DPA is running up against a deadline in May?

There is no deadline for the completion of our campaign. We have a minor limitation placed on us by the National Mediation Board that requires all Authorization Cards submitted be no older than one year from the date on the application for a vote. My Card is the oldest Card on file with a date of May 15th, 2010. The first 100 Cards were not in hand until late August. All Cards can be updated by resubmitting a new Card and destroying the old one. Should our campaign move into the fall, DPA will contact our oldest and most dedicated members and request they submit an updated Card. Let’s work together to finish our campaign before that extra work becomes necessary.

forgot to bid

We could always invite in the Teamsters.

Carl Spackler

Is it even POSSIBLE for you to pay attention to the conversation? We're talking about LEC's ability to communicate to the entire membership. Of course LEC's can speak to their own local without very much oversight from the MEC. But said LEC member cannot speak to the entire membership without that communication being edited for "accuracy" and other things by the MEC.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Do you even bother to think about the obvious and foreseen consequences of not enforcing our own Section 1? Or do you just enjoy humping the legs of those trying to implement change?

I don't see how our action could possibly further deepen the flaws in ALPA.

What a ridiculous statement. ALPA's flaws may well be deepened by trying to organize an in-house union...and those of us trying to do that should be held accountable for ALPA's continuing and deepening flaws?

The clear translation here is: Don't do ANYTHING to try and change of our union's because it might make an already bad situation worse.

Carl