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03-14-2011, 03:48 PM

#4761

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak

Caplinger's upset he was furloughed twice and told to back off when he went on his rivet crusade.

I don't think that has anything to do with why Tim and the others started the DPA effort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak

The other organizers I've met all think ALPA is ignoring their clearly superior ideas for getting a great contract.

I don't believe you've met any of them. I think you're just lying here to sound relevant and knowledgeable. You're failing at both.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak

They tell me all we have to do is be willing to shut the airline down anytime the company doesn't give us exactly what we want - and the money will flow.

Total BS and another lie. Post the email or any reference to any such conversation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak

They are frustrated that their simple plan for forcing the company, courts, and government to do it our way is ignored by ALPA after the fifth time they scream it at their reps.

Total BS and another lie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak

According to them - The 24% that voted AGAINST C2K? ALPA screwed up by not listening to them. The 12% of NWA pilots who voted AGAINST the 10% pay raise in 2003? ALPA screwed up by not listening to them.

Total BS and another lie.

Carl

03-14-2011, 03:53 PM

#4762

Carl Spackler

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Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

So, please enlighten us. What IS the point of DPA continuing an obviously failed attempt to replace ALPA?

Because the card count is still growing...thus it's not yet a failed attempt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

Anger is not a strategy.

Name calling is not a plan.

Carl

03-14-2011, 03:56 PM

#4763

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

RAH doesn't want a union that is funded by us?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gloopy

I don't know why not, they have an airline that is.

Dang it you two! Must you continue these kind of pithy accurate posts?

Carl

03-14-2011, 04:00 PM

#4764

Carl Spackler

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Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

There HAS been a positive change as of late, however with TO's remarks in a meeting I was in not long ago, the old is still alive and well. That must change.

What did he say that made you think that the old is alive and well?

Carl

03-14-2011, 04:08 PM

#4765

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak

But Carl says ALPA has never been successful!

Another complete lie. I've never said such a thing. I've been an ALPA member for 32 years and I consider most of those years as belonging to a successful union. The last 10 years or so have been drastically different.

Carl

03-14-2011, 04:41 PM

#4766

johnso29

Moderator

Joined APC: Oct 2006

Position: B757/767

Posts: 13,088

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

ALPA.

Delta, United got their contracts slaughtered being represented by whom? IPA didn't get slaughtered after who?

I'm sorry, when did UPS file for BK in the last 10 years? FAIL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Not true. You need to stop just looking at pay rates. It's pay rates and work rules that determine how much your W-2 will show for how many days you work. SWA was very close to us and exceeded us in some cases well before BK.

Some cases? So IOW, they've never negotiated an industry leading contract. They just got close.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

They also never negotiated Scope giveaways and complete collapses. They never celebrated the collapse of an airline on the cover of their magazine. And they never tried to bust a union.

Is it UPS pilots flying various turbo props carrying UPS packages around the country? While UPS has pilots on furlough, FedEx avoided furloughs by voting in lower line values to spread the pain equally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

So is everything I've written above.

Might want to check those facts again.

03-14-2011, 05:13 PM

#4767

Carl Spackler

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Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29

I'm sorry, when did UPS file for BK in the last 10 years? FAIL.

You only want to talk about ALPA when things went well and not discuss ALPA at all during tough times. I understand your need to do that in order to keep your arguments cogent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29

Some cases? So IOW, they've never negotiated an industry leading contract. They just got close.

Yes...they got very close. And far exceeded ALPA carriers with regard to outsourcing their pilots' jobs. Next.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29

Try to keep up. My Scope admiration was directed toward SWAPA, not IPA. FDX pilots agreeing to lower line values is a good thing, but I don't see how that enters in to this discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29

Might want to check those facts again.

After you, ace.

Carl

03-14-2011, 06:07 PM

#4768

johnso29

Moderator

Joined APC: Oct 2006

Position: B757/767

Posts: 13,088

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

You only want to talk about ALPA when things went well and not discuss ALPA at all during tough times. I understand your need to do that in order to keep your arguments cogent.

And you never want to acknowledge the good things ALPA has accomplished. Pot, meet kettle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Yes...they got very close. And far exceeded ALPA carriers with regard to outsourcing their pilots' jobs. Next.

Since you seem to have a tough time understanding, I'll say it again. They have NEVER negotiated an industry leading contract.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Try to keep up. My Scope admiration was directed toward SWAPA, not IPA. FDX pilots agreeing to lower line values is a good thing, but I don't see how that enters in to this discussion.

You're taking the one successful example and running with it. Are you aware AT scoped out flying before they were ALPA? AA has plenty of RJs flown by non AA pilots. JB pilot's are about to allow 78 seat flying to be outsourced. It's been approved by their union leaders. Are they ALPA? Scope is given away by pilots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

After you, ace.

Checkmate.

03-14-2011, 07:15 PM

#4769

Carl Spackler

Back on TDY

Joined APC: Apr 2008

Position: 747-400 Captain

Posts: 12,487

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29

And you never want to acknowledge the good things ALPA has accomplished. Pot, meet kettle.

Again, if you would actually read posts, you wouldn't make so many errors. Below is just one example:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

I've been an ALPA member for 32 years and I consider most of those years as belonging to a successful union.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29

Since you seem to have a tough time understanding, I'll say it again. They have NEVER negotiated an industry leading contract.

Who can understand you when you argue points that only you are making? I've never said SWAPA negotiated an industry leading contract. I HAVE said that SWAPA was very close to us in pay and far exceeded us in work rules BEFORE any of us went to BK. That was in response to this falsehood you posted on the subject:

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29

SWAPA became some of the highest paid pilots in our profession after UAL/DAL/NWA/UsAir rates were slashed in BK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29

Typical response from the entrenched ALPA no matter what types. If something good happens, it's because of ALPA. If something bad happens, it's the pilots that gave it away. At least you're consistent about your inconsistency.

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnso29

Checkmate.

Imagine that. Every move you make is wrong, and that's checkmate in your world. You must be part of ALPA legal.