iceman49

Karnak, Were you in the room when the descision was made about AMFA? This is one of those statements that has only a partial truth to it. It's almost like saying, I hope the FAs do not get a union because there will be more for me.

tsquare

The last few pages have been somewhat interesting, but not so much that I actually want to read them in entirety. Is there anybody out there that could read them and do a pod cast so I can listen to it while I am at the gym?

satchip

Thanks for the thoughtful response and honest intelligent questions.

The entire reason for the DPA is the power struggle. They cannot be divorced. Not all supporters or sympathizers of the DPA are complicit but at it's core and in it's leadership it is a way for people without power, I suspect those who had it once, to usurp the elected leadership.

As for the second part of your question, I don't think and independent union would be as effective as a national one. Unions derive their power from the numbers of people they represent. More members means more votes, money, and influence in the halls of power. Look at SEIU and AFSCME. While I abhor their politics and tactics, there is no denying their power and effectiveness in government. On the other hand you have the UAW and USW and the Coal Miners. Their power is shrinking with their memberships.

Imagine if ALPA represented all airline pilots. Think of the influence we could wield. I think that is what ACL is getting at. I think that is what Moak is working towards.

We also have a problem in this industry but it is common to all unions*, that one group of members can vote to sacrifice another group of members' jobs to better their compensation. I like what Bar says about this. Union means unity. All our jobs are equal. We make that compact with each other when we join.

That is part of the problem with the DPA. Generally speaking, those who seek power over their fellow man, rarely deserve to have it.

*FedEx ALPA voted furlough mitigation which reduced ALV in order to not furlough the bottom. Can any FedEx guys elaborate? I was told this on the golf course by a FedEx pilot.

Carl Spackler

You can't really be that thick can you? A mid term correction in our contract just brings us closer to the goal of restoration. It also makes the required gains in 2012 less to achieve C2K restoration in 2012. DAL88 has been clear on that point from the beginning. Why would you distort his position this way?

Carl

tsquare

I'm not sure I agree entirely. I think it is more of a disenfranchisement. Not so in my case... I just cannot stand waste, and alpa national is squandering my.. OUR money daily on non productive products... And I think there are a lot of guys that are sick of the good ole boys club that alpa national has become. ACL said that anybody can become president. I spit chili all over my monitor when I read that... really? What's the vetting process for that? Gotta go sweep floors on VA ave and get the lobotomy in order to affect real change??? Isn't that a bit oxymoronic? But I digress...

/Rant

Carl Spackler

The new ALPA president says RJ's are good for Delta and ran for office never mentioning Scope. Now that he's in office, he does not even list Scope as a threat to the profession. Now he says his highest priority for negotiations is to use ALPA's resources to ensure there are no selfish contracts. Those are the facts. They are "horse malarkey" only to the ALPA wannabes who desperately try to show that they can tow the propaganda line.

A tried and true process that puts a terrible and undue burden on its own members. Sign off on a terribly inadequate TA then fear monger the members to vote yes. Sound familiar?

Carl

NuGuy

What influence would you be talking about?

The influence to prevent Grand Theft Pension?

The influence to prevent bastardization of the 1,500 hour rule?

The influence to prevent age 65?

The influence to make Crew Pass appear?

The influence to prevent wholesale outsourcing of our careers at ALL levels?

It should be noted that the whole recent screening mess fix AND the FFDO process was only started after OTHER groups got the ball rolling. And other groups sure managed to steamroll the age 65 thing under the radar and in record time.

Heck, we can't even write contract language that prevented the outsourcing of MORE RJs, and we had to do a quickie, one-man grievance settlement.

As far as producing "overall" better contracts, I would disagree. Sure the pay rates were higher, but I will disagree on the rest. From position bidding, to outsourced instructors (bye bye 350+ pilot jobs with that, BTW) to hours of service protections, I'd have to say "er, not so much".

Nu

80ktsClamp

tsquare:

satchip

As for the pension question, witness the recent GM/Chrysler bailout/bankruptcy proceedings to see the power of national union with politicians in their pockets.

As for your other points, some things can't be avoided, like onrushing trains. 65 was going to happen once ICAO went that way. Didn't ALPA successfully lobby to prevent retroactive reinstatement?

CrewPass is another story. We and the government are at cross purposes. I doubt very much that CAPA or any USAPA or any other pilot group would do any better.

Have to take my son to surgery tomorrow at 0430. Time for bed for me.

Carl Spackler

It is never a law firm's job to protect the membership. That's the job of the union. The job of the law firm is to accomplish what the union leadership hires them to do. Even if the leadership is demanding something foolish.

Not a single employee agreed with the mechanic's premise that all other employees needed to sacrifice, but they needed raises or they would strike. But more importantly, ALPA stated that we could not legally honor that picket line. I would tell you to learn a little before you post, but that would ruin your template of lying first and denying later.

Carl