TANSTAAFL

Culture of disunity? Keep listening to the revisionist urban myths the Moakies keep chanting. Pass that $@it they smoke down there in ATL. Does RA give it to you?

Carl Spackler

None of the independents that you've listed above have ever engaged in union busting. ALPA did...and lost.

IPA and SWAPA are unions with the highest paid pilots in our profession.

The above are also facts. You've made your choice, and I've made mine.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Listen very carefully: No I will NOT expect it...I will work tirelessly to EARN it.

No, I call him a parrot because one of ALPA's talking points is to equate DPA with USAPA even though there's no comparison. I suppose DPA should do the same by comparing ALPA to Al-quaeda because they both start with the letter A.

Carl

DAL 88 Driver

Well at least there is no doubt what Al-Qaeda is trying to accomplish. I'm just sayin'....

acl65pilot

Wanting ALPA to succeed does not mean that I do not want motivated pilots to affect change within the organization. Those two are very different. I am a big believer in transparency of process. Fact is that you and I have not talked in quite some time, so you do not know where I stand on many issues. Of the issues I have discussed here, my points revolve around the fact that we need to follow a process. If we want restoration etc, we need to first unify under the organization that will produce the best chance of that result, and allow their full turn at the plate prior to our turn at the plate.


And how would you feel if DALPA went and stated that we want retirements or bust, but you want pay and not a DC? Fact is that until you can put out a "goal" you must know what the board wants. In our case the board is the line pilots and the medium is the contract survey. After that is completed you will see the goals come out. It is not something new, and it follows a proven process of section six talks.



I do not know one pilot, management type or other person that knows this industry that thinks we are happy with what me make. Never mind a farewell letter from a former leader.

As I have stated, a mid term may be done, but the pilots need to be polled first. It will undoubtedly cool the collective temperature of the pilot group down. Depending on where the other cards may be, that may or may not be a good thing.
It is business to them if they are willing to part with a raise with no extension to the contract great. I just see any "mid-term" raise coming with restrictions and or conditions.

See my above. A mid term without a quid pro quo would be a great thing, but the reality is that there would be conditions to it.

I am too lazy to look back six months on this and the L&G tread. My recollection is that you were irked that we would not ask nor demand such a thing starting now. I will give you that when faced with some criticism, you even stated you do not expect the touted 73% raise, but you still want it out there today.

Karnak

When the DPA law firm (Seham) represented two of those NWA unions (PFAA and AMFA), they failed miserably to protect the careers of their members. You should mention that to Sailingfun.

You could start by describing how YOU crossed the AMFA picket line to go to work. How did it feel to help the union-crushing management at NWA crush an independent union represented by Seham that had recently ousted a National union?

Carl Spackler

This is just the latest example of what you're missing. The efforts of individual members should not be wasted on fighting our own union!

We should ALL be fighting to make gains against a management that doesn't want to give us a single thing. Instead, we fight each other over process. It is no wonder why management is terrified of losing ALPA.

Carl

Carl Spackler

That is dead on and YOU know it. It's just painful for you to hear your desires clearly stated.

Translation: I want those aircraft and those pilots merged onto our seniority list even though many are unhireable. They are my friends and I don't want to see them suffer the way I did.

Translation: Anyone who doesn't agree with my dream of creating a back door entry of RJ pilots to the majors' seniority list is fostering disunity.

Carl

DAL 88 Driver

Kind of hard to do when the "organization" continually argues that true restoration is "not realistic."


I am so tired of folks like yourself hiding behind that. It doesn't take a survey or poll (or rocket scientist) to determine that the general goal is to restore our profession back to the point where it can provide for our families in a similar way to how it provided for decades. There are a million different ways to slice the small stuff... but pay and scope are the two "biggies." And I am also extremely tired of this mentality where you think we have to give up something ("but you want pay and not a DC?") to get something. Have we not already given enough? Was a 42% pay cut not enough? Was the termination of our pension not enough? Was outsourcing thousands of our jobs to regional pilots not enough? What more do you think we should give?

Here's the way I see it. This is NOT going to be a normal "give and take" negotiation. We are FAR from a normal situation! Or put another way, you don't dig yourself out of an unprecedented, extreme emergency by going about business in a slow, lackadaisical manner. Read my lips, "NO MORE GIVEBACKS!"


See my comments above.


That is a misleading paraphrasing of what I have previously said. And I absolutely did not change my story "when faced with some criticism."

NuGuy

Heyas,

I love it when "unity" is trotted out.

It is nothing but a bludgeon to get people to go along with a weak leadership with a slight majority.

Go against the status quo, and you are causing dissent. Speak up with an opinion, and you are being divisive. Offer up alternative courses of action, and you not only dis-loyal, but part of the "lunatic fringe".

A strong or well respected leadership would have no issues with informed dissent or a healthy discourse of opinion. A healthy leadership would have NO problems posting what they are doing, and the cost of doing so. A healthy structure would have a constant turnover of people because they love flying more than polishing a chair. A healthy leadership would not only encourage a variety of viewpoints, but would DEMAND it.

Yet we are faced with polling (done with outsourced labor...hello sweet irony...) who's sole function seems to be pimping pilots about alternative representation instead of making the changes the pilot group has already demanded, which, had anyone been listening, would have obviated the need for the polling.

Of course, the usual suspects are, well, suspected, so why not point out how that mean, old, terrible NWALPA was full of all kinds of dysfunction... There certainly were food fights, that much is certain. But in all my time there I never saw anyone crank up a card drive for alternate representation, or even CONSIDER IT.

Yet here we are, not 2 years into the merger, and there is a good number of people willing to organize such a drive here.

I'm not a DPA supporter, but I sure told the polling people I was. Let'em sweat.

Nu