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Old 02-24-2011, 03:47 PM
  #4471  
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Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
So there's not really any point to providing input to our reps, right? I mean, if we can only get things done by serving in some official ALPA capacity, then either all 12,000+ of us need to be serving (who's going to fly the airplanes?), or those of us who are not serving in an official capacity need to shut up and quit Monday morning quarterbacking. Is that what you're saying?
That is EXACTLY what he's saying. Nice job of translating the political double speak.

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Old 02-24-2011, 03:49 PM
  #4472  
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Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
So who gets to determine where to draw the line between providing input/holding leaders accountable and Monday morning quarterbacking? If there is "ZERO basis" to justify a different approach, then what's the point of providing input if it differs from the current path? Still sounds to me like you think any of us who disagree with the current path should either shut up and color and leave everything to our elected reps who know better, or do everything ourselves. I don't see any room in your argument for the "bottom up" input/accountability process ALPA is supposed to be using.
I give up. We can't seem to have an intelligent conversation for whatever reason, and I'm tired of trying.
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Old 02-24-2011, 04:16 PM
  #4473  
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Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver
That's an inaccurate statement and you know it. I'm an adult and an independent thinker. I will pick and choose when and how I "get my hands dirty."
Ok then, you seem to willing to do it on a web board. Might as well make it count.


I'm not. I think your thoughts have been corrupted. You should have stayed with your gut instincts.
Who says I haven't. Serving the pilots does not mean you get you way all of the time. It means that you carry the agenda forward. Not a small faction's, but the group as a whole, even if it is not what you would personally do.

Why don't you dig a little deeper, my thoughts are not corrupted, but thanks for the jab.


While you may not hold an official title at this point in time, I think it's quite obvious that your intentions are not to be "just a line guy" when it comes to ALPA stuff.
Maybe, maybe not. From time to time I am asked to consider this or that, and I do. No more, no less.
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Old 02-24-2011, 04:17 PM
  #4474  
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Originally Posted by scambo1
How close did you come to getting on the committee?
I am on a committee or two, so I guess, I got on em.
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Old 02-24-2011, 05:01 PM
  #4475  
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Originally Posted by tsquare
What has ALPA accomplished lately? Just a bullet list will do. You can stop at 2 items.
1. ALPA told us they would fight for the 1500 hour rule...then utterly caved in and was happy to just have their "seat at the table."

2. ALPA told us they would fight hard for the FT/DT rules...then utterly caved in and now back an increase in two person crew duty times by up to 2 additional hours. But they did have their "seat at the table".

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Old 02-24-2011, 05:07 PM
  #4476  
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I've been on the sidelines, but here's something pushing me toward DPA. From ALPA:
The 53,000 members of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l, stand together with the public-sector workers of Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio, and anywhere collective bargaining rights are threatened. The ability to join as a group to negotiate working conditions with an employer is a fundamental tenet of a free democracy.

Teachers, police officers, firefighters, nurses, and other public employees are the bedrock of our society. They deserve our respect and recognition for the essential work they do. Like all workers, they also deserve the right to organize their members and bargain on their behalf.

Many of the basic work conditions every American takes for granted, including retirement plans, employer-supported health care, the five-day work week, and paid holidays, came as a direct result of advances made by organized labor. Whether or not they belong to a union, every working American enjoys benefits won through collective bargaining. The current anti-labor backlash perpetuated by some cynical politicians ignores our history and cheapens the collaboration between labor and management that has created the most prosperous, best-educated workforce in the world.

As we have seen too often in our own industry, pay, benefits, and work rules can change, and not always for the better. But we firmly believe that any changes in employment deserve to be negotiated directly with an employer, not arbitrarily imposed by government or the courts.

We urge all ALPA members to support their union colleagues and take a stand with them for the American principles of fairness, equity, and justice.

I could not disagree with this more. The WI teachers are public workers who want to retain collective bargaining rights to negotiate with....wait for it....public workers. The people footing the bill for what agreements are made are the public taxpayer. This is not the same as working with a corporation. The fact that my dues go to support this kind of cr@# is another reason to consider alternatives. I would hope DPA would not act in such a manner. Naive? I hope not.
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Old 02-24-2011, 05:28 PM
  #4477  
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Originally Posted by Jesse
I've been on the sidelines, but here's something pushing me toward DPA. From ALPA:
The 53,000 members of the Air Line Pilots Association, Int’l, stand together with the public-sector workers of Wisconsin, Indiana, Ohio, and anywhere collective bargaining rights are threatened. The ability to join as a group to negotiate working conditions with an employer is a fundamental tenet of a free democracy.

Teachers, police officers, firefighters, nurses, and other public employees are the bedrock of our society. They deserve our respect and recognition for the essential work they do. Like all workers, they also deserve the right to organize their members and bargain on their behalf.

Many of the basic work conditions every American takes for granted, including retirement plans, employer-supported health care, the five-day work week, and paid holidays, came as a direct result of advances made by organized labor. Whether or not they belong to a union, every working American enjoys benefits won through collective bargaining. The current anti-labor backlash perpetuated by some cynical politicians ignores our history and cheapens the collaboration between labor and management that has created the most prosperous, best-educated workforce in the world.

As we have seen too often in our own industry, pay, benefits, and work rules can change, and not always for the better. But we firmly believe that any changes in employment deserve to be negotiated directly with an employer, not arbitrarily imposed by government or the courts.

We urge all ALPA members to support their union colleagues and take a stand with them for the American principles of fairness, equity, and justice.

I could not disagree with this more. The WI teachers are public workers who want to retain collective bargaining rights to negotiate with....wait for it....public workers. The people footing the bill for what agreements are made are the public taxpayer. This is not the same as working with a corporation. The fact that my dues go to support this kind of cr@# is another reason to consider alternatives. I would hope DPA would not act in such a manner. Naive? I hope not.
Truth is, ALPA has lost the moral right to speak about backing workers rights. ALPA tried to break their own in-house union...and lost. Never forget this.

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Old 02-24-2011, 05:30 PM
  #4478  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Truth is, ALPA has lost the moral right to speak about backing workers rights. ALPA tried to break their own in-house union...and lost. Never forget this.

Carl
Carl, its another red-letter day! I am in complete agreement with you. Heads should role over this one....
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Old 02-24-2011, 05:53 PM
  #4479  
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Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy
Carl, its another red-letter day! I am in complete agreement with you. Heads should role over this one....
Yikes man. Isn't that like matter and anti-matter meeting? Couldn't that destroy the universe or something?

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Old 02-24-2011, 06:06 PM
  #4480  
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Agreed, but Jesse they are talking about Collective Bargaining rights, not what they actually get. They are defending the right to organize and bargain collectively.

Big difference than stating that they should all get free medical and pensions without modification.
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