Delta Pilots Association
02-06-2011, 02:08 PM
#4351
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: I'm in a box
Posts: 19
Section 1 aka the Scope section of your contract is way bigger than that richard-head stole my flying. Code share, joint ventures, mergers, change in control, successorship, fragmentation and other legalese terms like this are all scope issues. If your contract doesn't have this kind of language ask your buddy for his and actually read it. This is big picture stuff. It is ALL scope. Ask a UAL guy how that Aer Lingus part of their scope language works. If you can't see beyond the aluminum tube measuring contest, then you're missing part of what scope means. Read your Section 1 today.
02-06-2011, 02:27 PM
#4352
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Section 1 aka the Scope section of your contract is way bigger than that richard-head stole my flying. Code share, joint ventures, mergers, change in control, successorship, fragmentation and other legalese terms like this are all scope issues. If your contract doesn't have this kind of language ask your buddy for his and actually read it. This is big picture stuff. It is ALL scope. Ask a UAL guy how that Aer Lingus part of their scope language works. If you can't see beyond the aluminum tube measuring contest, then you're missing part of what scope means. Read your Section 1 today.
I actually read my section 1 last week. Cabotage and open skies is a whole lot different from scope. Those are national policies, not corporate contracts.
You talk as if I cannot comprehend what I read, I would recommend you try to do some research before you type.
02-06-2011, 03:45 PM
#4353
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: I'm in a box
Posts: 19
You talk as if I cannot comprehend what I read, I would recommend you try to do some research before you type.
Look at British Airways - Openskies and United - Aer Lingus.
Their scope language permitted both of these to happen...
02-06-2011, 07:46 PM
#4355
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
For 0RAC: You're in a hole...stop digging.
Carl
02-06-2011, 09:56 PM
#4358
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: I'm in a box
Posts: 19
"United's pilots have the contractual right to handle its flying. But one exception to this rule, negotiated during United's three-year bankruptcy, applies to joint ventures formed by United and Star Alliance partners, such as Aer Lingus."
Crews Protest United/Aer Lingus Job Outsourcing
02-07-2011, 07:02 AM
#4359
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Then explain why Aer Lingus isn't flying Delta flights with outsourced non-union employees, but flew United's? JV issues are Section 1 issues. That is scope, like it or not. I don't have time to pull the United scope grievance, but here's some quick Googles for you. Could this same thing happen to you at Delta or does your Scope language protect you?
"United's pilots have the contractual right to handle its flying. But one exception to this rule, negotiated during United's three-year bankruptcy, applies to joint ventures formed by United and Star Alliance partners, such as Aer Lingus."
Crews Protest United/Aer Lingus Job Outsourcing
"United's pilots have the contractual right to handle its flying. But one exception to this rule, negotiated during United's three-year bankruptcy, applies to joint ventures formed by United and Star Alliance partners, such as Aer Lingus."
Crews Protest United/Aer Lingus Job Outsourcing
They are different. No pilot contract Section 1 protects you against open skies or cabotage.
JV flying is something that can be regulated via Section 1.
Apples and oranges.
02-07-2011, 07:34 AM
#4360
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
In ORAC's defense, I think he is focused on this:
OpenSkies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Not this:
Open skies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The first is a British Airways alter ego company, the second is the Open Skies accord. If after reading both and the previous posts, he thinks section 1 covers each, then there is nothing left to say.
OpenSkies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Not this:
Open skies - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The first is a British Airways alter ego company, the second is the Open Skies accord. If after reading both and the previous posts, he thinks section 1 covers each, then there is nothing left to say.
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