Splash

Disagree. If the numbers are correct, then DALPA has "failed to relate" to 1,531 line pilots. That means DALPA has related favorably...or adequately...to about 10,469.

I get too many Chairman's Letters (criticized on this forum), Chairman's videos (ditto), Code A Phones, Touch And Go's, MEC Alerts, Aircrew Health Bulletins, Capitol Hill Briefs, and LEC updates to to agree with your characterization. I think he has a role in producing those, so "mostly" is misleading.

Based on the numbers, the "tool" is weak as a recruiting device.

Agree, agree, agree, & agree.

Yet the numbers suggest only about 13% have been driven to make a bad decision. I think it's no coincidence that the percentage is almost identical to the percentage that voted against the largest pay increase (with no quids) at NWA.

I think that number fits within a continuous probability distribution (bell curve) for just about any population sample.

If 87% of your group are satisfied...have you failed? At what point is your time/money/energy wasted in trying please those who fall outside a standard deviation or two? !0%? 5%?

Sink r8

I stand by my assertion, or maybe I'll correct it this way: it feels like the only visible role the Comm Chairman has elected to play is the role I described. There certainly have been other pieces in the effort, but those have been sporadic, and usually have failed to connect. They certainly haven't been emblematic of the "Back to Basics" I have told my rep would be needed for the last couple of years. They tried to effect a change with comms, and failed. I believe LM did a decent job, but his approach to communications, while focusing on a sort of "less is more" approach, gradually yiedled communications that were more and more obscure to the average pilot. It doesn't matter how beautiful a point is, if the only people it resonates with are people that already agree with the administration. And of course, most of those communications were signed LM, not BH, who (again) seemed to be strctly engaged in Forum ping-pong, with an insane frequency and vitriolic tone that ensured a polarized environment.

This is why DPA fails, but it's not necessarily proof of success by DALPA, or at least by certain practices or policies. For starters, what is the percentage of pilots that actually bothers to vote in local elections? Is it more than 26%? If not, I'd say the 13% have a very good shot at changing policy.... and oddly enough, that is exactly what they did in 66. I understand that incumbants came very close in other councils.

Finally, if I can say that it's DALPA's weaknesses that allow DPA to have existed at all, I must also say that since DPA seems like such a crappy product, 13% is an amazingly high number. Again, something DALPA shouldn't be proud of.

So I think you're taking an extraordinarily dangerous leap when you conclude 87% are satisfied. I think the CA Rep in 66 didn't quite grasp the difference between people that are not suicidal (not falling for DPA), vs. those that are still dissatisfied/depressed/disappointed/disgruntled, and wish to be addressed like grown-ups. If you spin off some of the 13% that are so mad as to go to DPA, you still get somewhere between 57% and 70% that voted against the incumbent, vs. 30% for.

Where does 57% fall, statistically speaking?

Splash

At what percentage does it cease to be the organization's fault that those members aren't happy?

If 1% are upset, do I target them for special effort? 5%? 10% Give me a number and let's argue about it.

Is there a percentage of our pilot group that is always unhappy?

Should we call it "other-than-dissatisfied" then? You have some rubs with ALPA. So do I. Given what I know about DPA and their advisors, I have HUGE rubs with them. Maybe that's the situation across the pilot group. Maybe being 10-degrees is better than -30-degrees, but they're both freezing. I'm not that cynical, though. I think ALPA has done a very good job despite it's flaws.

I disagree with your methodology. This isn't a local election where one Delta pilot is running against another Delta pilot. The only statistic that matters on this thread is percentage that think DPA is better than ALPA. Maybe if DPA's advisors and lawyers weren't a bunch of proven losers and management representatives, we could compare apples to apples.

If we're calling this a referendum on ALPA, I'd say the numbers speak for themselves.

tsquare

Gosh Cliff, what color is the sky in your world? You really made the quantum leap that if only 1531 have filled out cards that 10,000+ are SATISFIED with alpa? Really? That is such an amazing jump that I am totally lost for words....

satisfied.... wow.

It's called apathy.... look it up. It is more rampant than you can apparently imagine. But I guess with those rose colored glasses you are constantly wearing, I shouldn't be surprised...

Splash

You read the post just above yours...right?

tsquare

Yes I did... and I still see you saying that all is right with alpa. Please corect me if I am wrong... But the number of DPA cards sent in is a pathetic poll to be using as a "referendum" of satisfaction with the association.

80ktsClamp

2/3 people don't understand statistics and the other half doesn't know how to intepret them.

Splash

You're wrong.

Either that or we need to track down your 2nd grade Reading teacher and yank her certificate.

Here's what the post you claim to have read, actually said: "Should we call it "other-than-dissatisfied" then? You have some rubs with ALPA. So do I. Given what I know about DPA and their advisors, I have HUGE rubs with them. Maybe that's the situation across the pilot group. Maybe being 10-degrees is better than -30-degrees, but they're both freezing. I'm not that cynical, though. I think ALPA has done a very good job despite it's flaws."

tsquare

All of this is moot anyway.. alpa wins, because they have the monopoly. They only have to satisfy 50%+1.. an admirable goal..

I wish I was as smart as you sir.. I really do. Or at least I wish I had the faith in the broken organization to think that there is no way that anything can be done any better.

Jack Bauer

You're waisting your time with these guys T. They are like parrots with an undying allegiance to ALPA. The fact is ALPA is a mess and represents themselves not the average line pilot.

3,2,1.... Now an a guy from the church of ALPA will chime in telling us he is starting a five day trip