Delta Pilots Association
01-27-2011, 02:33 PM
#4221
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Just as a reminder, early in your career when all the major airlines were hiring, you sought employment at a struggling carrier that undercut wages of other pilot groups. That carrier ultimately didn't survive, but its low wage contract did exert signficant downward pressure during bargaining on other carrier contract negotiations.
Why did you voluntarily seek employment that didn't meet your expectations, and why were you a participate in the degradation of the profession? Didn't you have a clear and unequivocal mission statement in your job search? Didn't you value the profession, or did you do a resume pump and run, and now expect others to repair the damage?
I should probably seek Tom's inflation adjusted damages for your behavior....
Why did you voluntarily seek employment that didn't meet your expectations, and why were you a participate in the degradation of the profession? Didn't you have a clear and unequivocal mission statement in your job search? Didn't you value the profession, or did you do a resume pump and run, and now expect others to repair the damage?
I should probably seek Tom's inflation adjusted damages for your behavior....
I didn't go to a carrier like that Slow, neither did you. So, I guess my question is why are you singling out one person. I agree with 88 in much of what he says.
Is it unreasonable for us to hope for restoration? Is it unreasonable for us to demand restoration?
I would submit to you that if it is, I'd like the union off the property and at least I'd get my 1.9% back.
01-27-2011, 02:37 PM
#4222
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
1531 have sent in cards as of 1/23/11, and DPA can't find but 2 guys to be base reps. Sounds like they've captured the forum crowd, but no one actually willing to get out from behind the keyboard.
Carl, tsquare, DAL88, capncrunch, scambo1, what are you all waiting for? Someone else to do all the work for you?
Carl, tsquare, DAL88, capncrunch, scambo1, what are you all waiting for? Someone else to do all the work for you?
PG you are my hero.
Would it suprise you if I wasn't one of the 1531?
01-27-2011, 03:27 PM
#4223
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
No, not at all. Based on your postings in this thread you clearly support them; but it wouldn't surprise me if you thought it was too much effort to get out from behind the keyboard and actually fill out a card.
01-27-2011, 03:33 PM
#4224
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Nice cybershot.
Actually for me, it is all about timing, but thanks for the fraternal disrespect. Your opinion is of course more valuable.
01-27-2011, 05:08 PM
#4226
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
01-28-2011, 07:40 AM
#4227
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: Boeing Boss
Posts: 335
Our collective goal should be high. Our expectations should be adjusted. I can't give you a percentage of the adjustments because it varies. Priorities shift.
You should be able to tell from many of my posts that I am fully aware of and acknowledging reality... but without using a difficult environment as an excuse for giving up on restoration. If anything, I think the factual information I have posted in terms of past and current pay rates and inflation have added some much needed reality to the discussion of where we as a pilot group need to go, and what it will take to get there.
Some think we should have gotten it in the merger contract. Some think we should get it NOW! Some think we should wait for the end of the next contract to get there. Some can't think of a timeline.
To keep a group with that range of expectations unified, some of us are going to have to adjust our expectations to be more in line with our collective goal. The alternative is to try to achieve ANY goal with a dis-unified group.
The DPA's advisors have a long history of selling their snake oil with the logic, "What you want is reasonable and righteous. You've been screwed by ALPA (IBT, IAM, etc)! Everybody will agree with your reasonable and righteous expectations, and be totally unified once you've gotten rid of ALPA (IBT, IAM, etc)."
If only 1,531 Delta pilots have to adjust their expectations to 68% of a supermodel, we might be doing ok.
01-28-2011, 07:46 AM
#4228
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Maybe we should start with goals vs expectations. My goal was to marry a supermodel. Based on some early success in my youth, my expectation of reaching my goal was encouraged. Tammy Patterson had the same hair style as Farrah, and Kathy O'Neil kinda looked like Cheryl Tiegs from behind...in low light. But at some point I had to adjust my expectations, and settled for a girl that was only about 68% supermodel. That adjusted expectation has gotten easier to accept as I've watched my peers write monthly alimony checks to their 95% supermodels, and as I've learned how apparently difficult some of my "goal" girls are to live with.
Our collective goal should be high. Our expectations should be adjusted. I can't give you a percentage of the adjustments because it varies. Priorities shift.
Nobody is giving up on restoration. When do you want it?
Some think we should have gotten it in the merger contract. Some think we should get it NOW! Some think we should wait for the end of the next contract to get there. Some can't think of a timeline.
To keep a group with that range of expectations unified, some of us are going to have to adjust our expectations to be more in line with our collective goal. The alternative is to try to achieve ANY goal with a dis-unified group.
The DPA's advisors have a long history of selling their snake oil with the logic, "What you want is reasonable and righteous. You've been screwed by ALPA (IBT, IAM, etc)! Everybody will agree with your reasonable and righteous expectations, and be totally unified once you've gotten rid of ALPA (IBT, IAM, etc)."
So there must be something to this "environment" thing! Delta ALPA is doing better than it's peers...who are all failing to meet the "reasonable expectations" of some.
If only 1,531 Delta pilots have to adjust their expectations to 68% of a supermodel, we might be doing ok.
Our collective goal should be high. Our expectations should be adjusted. I can't give you a percentage of the adjustments because it varies. Priorities shift.
Nobody is giving up on restoration. When do you want it?
Some think we should have gotten it in the merger contract. Some think we should get it NOW! Some think we should wait for the end of the next contract to get there. Some can't think of a timeline.
To keep a group with that range of expectations unified, some of us are going to have to adjust our expectations to be more in line with our collective goal. The alternative is to try to achieve ANY goal with a dis-unified group.
The DPA's advisors have a long history of selling their snake oil with the logic, "What you want is reasonable and righteous. You've been screwed by ALPA (IBT, IAM, etc)! Everybody will agree with your reasonable and righteous expectations, and be totally unified once you've gotten rid of ALPA (IBT, IAM, etc)."
So there must be something to this "environment" thing! Delta ALPA is doing better than it's peers...who are all failing to meet the "reasonable expectations" of some.
If only 1,531 Delta pilots have to adjust their expectations to 68% of a supermodel, we might be doing ok.
01-28-2011, 07:52 AM
#4229
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
Maybe we should start with goals vs expectations. My goal was to marry a supermodel. Based on some early success in my youth, my expectation of reaching my goal was encouraged. Tammy Patterson had the same hair style as Farrah, and Kathy O'Neil kinda looked like Cheryl Tiegs from behind...in low light. But at some point I had to adjust my expectations, and settled for a girl that was only about 68% supermodel. That adjusted expectation has gotten easier to accept as I've watched my peers write monthly alimony checks to their 95% supermodels, and as I've learned how apparently difficult some of my "goal" girls are to live with.
01-28-2011, 08:36 AM
#4230
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
1531 have sent in cards as of 1/23/11, and DPA can't find but 2 guys to be base reps. Sounds like they've captured the forum crowd, but no one actually willing to get out from behind the keyboard.
Carl, tsquare, DAL88, capncrunch, scambo1, what are you all waiting for? Someone else to do all the work for you?
Carl, tsquare, DAL88, capncrunch, scambo1, what are you all waiting for? Someone else to do all the work for you?
So when you are getting bogged down in tit-for-tat, idiotic, pedantic, arrogant exchanges on the Forum, or this board, you're becoming the DPA's best recruitment... tool.
The way DALPA kills DPA is by focusing on the job of representing the Delta pilots, in a dignified and effective manner. There is plenty of serious work to be done. As long as that remains the focus, I don't see any interest in engaging people like Carl, since they've long ago run out of ideas. They only thing that makes them semi-pertinent is to give them a soap-box, the way you're going about it. By disparaging people that are on the fence, or people that are only using the threat of DPA to encourage DALPA to address key weaknesses, you're encouraging lurkers that are only expecting better from DALPA, to send in a card for DPA.
1531 is an embarassing number for DPA, but it isn't a proud moment for DALPA either.
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