DAL 88 Driver

Perhaps I didn't write it clearly enough. I was giving Lee Moak full credit for the increases we experienced during his tenure. For example... our 2004 (C2K) MD-88 12-year Captain rate was $237.37. If you adjust that rate for inflation (2004 to 2012), you get a rate of $284.26. Our January 1, 2012 MD-88 12-year Captain rate (current contract) is $167.68. It would take an approximate 70% increase to bring the January 1, 2012 rate to the inflation adjusted value of the C2K rate. Obviously, had we not experienced any increases since the massive pay cuts, it would take much greater than a 70% increase to achieve full restoration.

Splash

Thanks for the clarification.

DAL 88 Driver

You're welcome.

And just to add some additional perspective to this...

The straight math on a 42% pay cut is that it would take a 73% increase to get back to where you started. The fact that it would take an approximate 70% increase to our current contract 2012 rates to get to the inflation adjusted C2K rates, tells me that the increases achieved by the Moak administration are almost identical to the rate of inflation. In other words, Moak's strategy achieved what amounts to a cost of living adjustment (COLA) to our bankruptcy/emergency pay rates. That's a fact. My opinion is that he did this at the cost of making it sound like we're satisfied with that, and that we have little or even no expectation of ever getting back to anywhere near the buying power our profession has typically enjoyed. It seems obvious to me that having set this kind of tone... and the expectations (on both sides) that go along with it... can only serve to hurt us when we get into Section 6 negotiations.

Wasatch Phantom

Very Well Said (both the factual part and the opinion)!

Splash

In an effort to keep this in the context of the thread, the FACT is that none of our peers have managed even that much in this environment. So it is a FACT that Lee Moak and his strategy were the most successful...based on your data. The independent group supported by the advisors and law firm the DPA is using (USAPA) has failed to even keep pace.

I guess we heard his comments differently. I've never heard or read him state that we should be satisfied with where we are. His Sept 23rd Chairman's Letter stated, "To be clear, much work remains, and while everyone on the MEC and within the extended committee structure is working hard to carry out the work of the Delta pilots, we recognize we can and must constantly look for ways to improve." A message suggesting "satisfaction" might have stated, "We made it!" or "Mission Accomplished!" I heard Lee speak in NRT last year, and his message and tone were the exact opposite of satisfaction with the status quo.

Regarding your reference to "buying power", where would you rank straight compensation among all of the contractual issues ALPA has and will address? Would you rank it higher than protection from international alliance partners taking our flying? Does the AF/KLM joint venture agreement that guarantees us the lion's share of transAtlantic flying look like a "win" or "loss" when you compare it to United's incursion by Aer Lingus, or American's requirement to shed 3 LHR routes (to us!) to consummate their alliance with British Airways?

I'd like to read you opinions on those too.

And yet his "tone", "strategy" and actions have yielded better results than the others. So the message I can infer from DPA supporters upset with ALPA's performance is that actual success isn't as important as tone and shouting our expectations?

NERD

Why would you want those rates? Can you imagine the taxes you would have to pay

DAL 88 Driver

The difference is negligible in the grand scheme of things. They are still far below the buying power this profession has typically provided and the expectations that they all had getting into this career... and so are we.

Don't get me wrong. I'll take whatever we can get. Nothing wrong with that, and I'm glad we got it! What I have a problem with is the lack of focus on getting back to where both you and I (and probably just about every other pilot at this airline except Satchip) think we should be.

While he may have never come out and said we are "satisfied with where we are", his lack of any intensity or focus on restoration in any of his statements or actions could easily be interpreted that way. Just the simple fact that there was no effort whatsoever to advocate that we should be made at least partially whole after the company came out of bankruptcy says an awful lot. Saying things like "much work remains" and "constantly look for ways to improve" is a far cry from clearly stating what we intend to accomplish and showing the kind of visionary leadership that is necessary to rally the pilot group around this monumental objective.

My input will be that "buying power" (compensation), scope, and retirement are the key issues. I'm looking for restoration of at least most of the value of our careers in terms of compensation. I'm looking to at the very least hold the line on scope and, preferably (much preferably) to actually take as much as possible of our flying back. Delta pilots should be flying Delta customers. Period. And given the significant loss of pension benefits that all of us have experienced, I expect the company contribution to be increased in our DC Plan and DPSP to help compensate for this devastating loss. And, no, I don't expect to give up anything to get any of this! We did all the giving (way more than was appropriate) several years ago.

As much as you might like to characterize it as "chest thumping", "holding your breath", "stomping your feet", "acting like a child", etc.... that's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for an MEC Chairman and an MEC that's not afraid to state that our objective is to restore this profession and our careers. I want them to make it clear to all concerned (in a professional and firm way) that this is absolutely imperative... that failure to do this is simply not an option with our pilot group. What we've had to this point is IMO weak leadership that has left our intentions wide open to interpretation... someone who is more interested in playing politics and keeping management happy than he is in getting management to do what is right. As I've said numerous times before... We've been out of bankruptcy for several years now. The emergency is long over! There is absolutely no reason that our pay could not begin to be restored now. ALPA should have been clearly advocating this with the company since the day we came out of bankruptcy. And the volume should have been turned up even more the minute Delta began to post record profits. And if they say, "a contract is a contract"... well then we'll know where we stand in this "relationship" we've worked so hard to build.

To answer your question more directly. Yes, tone and setting expectations are extremely important.

Carl Spackler

On the United/CAL thread, they announced that the United MEC just shut down the UCAL ALPA forum. No communication except from the elected leadership TO the members. Nothing FROM the members until further notice.

ALPA is a broken organization. Utterly broken.

Carl

Reroute

Carl, I believe the United MEC just shutdown the UAL pilots forum not the CAL pilots forum. They are still separate MECs.

It looks like it might be a temporary shutdown too, apparently due to multiple violations of forum rules.

tsquare

Just something to put in the back of your mind. I was recently cleaning out some files at home, and I ran across some handouts that I got from a retirement seminar back in 1992. It made a few assumptions, of course, but the one thing that stuck out was a comparative pay page. It showed.. in 1991, an estimated salary for a B757 captain of..... drum roll..... $159,916. In case you missed it.. that was in 1991. Tell me again what is this restoration of which you all speak?