Delta Pilots Association
01-04-2011, 07:50 AM
#3891
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Ok guys.....Time for a refresher.
I'm starting to see the ALPA RJ contradiction coming to rear its ugly head again.
One DC-9 crew earns roughly $21k/month in wages. This equates to $408 in dues, per DC-9 CREW, per month.
One CRJ-900 crew at ASA or Comair earns roughly $11k per month in wages. This equates to $213 in dues, per crew, per month.
***Above does not calculate for better reserve, work rules etc. which would make the disparity even larger once factored in.....
If this holds true, then how is ALPA "the money stealing entity" serving itself by "promoting" an agenda that LOWERS its own sources of revenue?
Many of you posting here view ALPA as "money machine, self-serving interest" that wants to line its own pockets" at the expense of its members. In the same vein, many of those same people state that they are sick and tired of their dues money going to subsidize RJ pilot groups, and that mainline pilots are only getting 20-30% of their money back from dues paid in. This says to me that RJ pilot groups COST money and do not MAKE money for ALPA, so financially it would be more beneficial to eliminate them, right?
WHICH IS IT???? Is ALPA out to make money? OR are they out to promote RJ jobs at the expense of mainline pilot members?
You can't have it both ways.
(Or, are the people who volunteer to help and run for offices to help make the union function truly committed to helping pilots and promoting and improving the profession? (Often with a deck of cards that is often stacked against them in DC.) I dunno, just asking....)
I'm starting to see the ALPA RJ contradiction coming to rear its ugly head again.
One DC-9 crew earns roughly $21k/month in wages. This equates to $408 in dues, per DC-9 CREW, per month.
One CRJ-900 crew at ASA or Comair earns roughly $11k per month in wages. This equates to $213 in dues, per crew, per month.
***Above does not calculate for better reserve, work rules etc. which would make the disparity even larger once factored in.....
If this holds true, then how is ALPA "the money stealing entity" serving itself by "promoting" an agenda that LOWERS its own sources of revenue?
Many of you posting here view ALPA as "money machine, self-serving interest" that wants to line its own pockets" at the expense of its members. In the same vein, many of those same people state that they are sick and tired of their dues money going to subsidize RJ pilot groups, and that mainline pilots are only getting 20-30% of their money back from dues paid in. This says to me that RJ pilot groups COST money and do not MAKE money for ALPA, so financially it would be more beneficial to eliminate them, right?
WHICH IS IT???? Is ALPA out to make money? OR are they out to promote RJ jobs at the expense of mainline pilot members?
You can't have it both ways.
(Or, are the people who volunteer to help and run for offices to help make the union function truly committed to helping pilots and promoting and improving the profession? (Often with a deck of cards that is often stacked against them in DC.) I dunno, just asking....)
01-04-2011, 07:57 AM
#3892
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Well, they may have to change their interests or their careers. As others have said, this process will take time. When Delta and Northwest merged our contract reduced the amount of 70+ seat RJ's from the combined total of the two independent groups. ALPA signed it. ALPA is in the process of helping CAL/UAL try to negotiate an elimination of all outsourced flying, if there was a conflict, then why is ALPA doing this?
ALPA has no conflict between RJ's and mainline. They want pilots to all get paid more money. If we don't lift up the RJ carriers, then they will be a drag on us our entire careers. If we lift them up and draw them into mainline, we can eliminate outsourcing. ALPA wants this. Those jobs aren't going away, they should just become better jobs that work for mainline carriers.
Carl
01-04-2011, 08:20 AM
#3893
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Well, they may have to change their interests or their careers. As others have said, this process will take time. When Delta and Northwest merged our contract reduced the amount of 70+ seat RJ's from the combined total of the two independent groups. ALPA signed it. ALPA is in the process of helping CAL/UAL try to negotiate an elimination of all outsourced flying, if there was a conflict, then why is ALPA doing this?
One of the main reasons that the Delta MEC worked to facilitate this merger was to broaden the network so that more mainline flying would be profitable and to lessen reliance on RJ's. Delta now has 200 less RJ's than DL/NW had before the merger. Here is an example that Hauenstein used in the DL investors conference:
DAB to ATL
August 2009 : 7 flights per day, average gauge 66 seats
September 2010 : 4 flights per day, average gauge 138 seats
This is exactly what we envisioned when we signed on to the merger. ALPA has no conflict between RJ's and mainline. They want pilots to all get paid more money. If we don't lift up the RJ carriers, then they will be a drag on us our entire careers. If we lift them up and draw them into mainline, we can eliminate outsourcing. ALPA wants this. Those jobs aren't going away, they should just become better jobs that work for mainline carriers.
One of the main reasons that the Delta MEC worked to facilitate this merger was to broaden the network so that more mainline flying would be profitable and to lessen reliance on RJ's. Delta now has 200 less RJ's than DL/NW had before the merger. Here is an example that Hauenstein used in the DL investors conference:
DAB to ATL
August 2009 : 7 flights per day, average gauge 66 seats
September 2010 : 4 flights per day, average gauge 138 seats
This is exactly what we envisioned when we signed on to the merger. ALPA has no conflict between RJ's and mainline. They want pilots to all get paid more money. If we don't lift up the RJ carriers, then they will be a drag on us our entire careers. If we lift them up and draw them into mainline, we can eliminate outsourcing. ALPA wants this. Those jobs aren't going away, they should just become better jobs that work for mainline carriers.
01-04-2011, 09:41 AM
#3894
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
But with all the 767's in Asia, it's nice to see that the merger with NWA made the 767 "viable."
Carl
01-04-2011, 09:48 AM
#3895
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl
01-04-2011, 09:55 AM
#3896
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
A straight merger with an RJ airline would have unqualified and wrong backgrounds joining a major airline. That is not going to happen IMO.
Carl
01-04-2011, 10:17 AM
#3898
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Wrong. Management would never elect to recapture Scope. Only DALPA using its leverage can accomplish that.
It's up to management on how they want to add the flying back to mainline. Management would likely merge with its regional affiliates.
Wrong again. If that is in our contract, a judge will ensure it is complied with.
The contract would be a JCBA between Delta pilots and its regional affiliates if management so chooses.
Wrong again. A judge will make it painful for management if they don't comply. Just llike all sections of a signed contract. Unless management wants to declare Chapter 11 again.
They don't need to file chapter 11 to merge with another company.
It's also possible for RJ pilots to be put in the Space Shuttle program. I wouldn't count on it however.
The same can be said for mainline pilots.
I know that's how you see it. It would benefit people like you the most. People without the qualifications or background to be hired by a major - now you get a back door entrance without interviewing or competing. I understand why you want it. It just won't happen.
Carl
It's up to management on how they want to add the flying back to mainline. Management would likely merge with its regional affiliates.
Wrong again. If that is in our contract, a judge will ensure it is complied with.
The contract would be a JCBA between Delta pilots and its regional affiliates if management so chooses.
Wrong again. A judge will make it painful for management if they don't comply. Just llike all sections of a signed contract. Unless management wants to declare Chapter 11 again.
They don't need to file chapter 11 to merge with another company.
It's also possible for RJ pilots to be put in the Space Shuttle program. I wouldn't count on it however.
The same can be said for mainline pilots.
I know that's how you see it. It would benefit people like you the most. People without the qualifications or background to be hired by a major - now you get a back door entrance without interviewing or competing. I understand why you want it. It just won't happen.
Carl
01-04-2011, 10:44 AM
#3899
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
I hope I don't give anyone in management a heart attack, but those pilots are flying Delta passengers every day. Unless Delta management takes the rather cynical view that killing passengers in groups of 50,70, or 76 is okay, but not in groups of 124, 150, etc. then they have already come to acknowledgment that these pilots are good enough to fly our passengers.
When we merged, there were pilots at NW that failed the DL interview process. There were pilots at DL that failed the NW interview process. Big deal. Management certainly got over that hurdle, they may just have to suck up a little more.
When we merged, there were pilots at NW that failed the DL interview process. There were pilots at DL that failed the NW interview process. Big deal. Management certainly got over that hurdle, they may just have to suck up a little more.
So, are all of those pilots "good enough to fly our passengers?" I say no. There is a disconnect between the standards Delta expects of its mainline pilots and what they have allowed to happen by outsourcing our pilots.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Lbell911
Regional
23
04-22-2012 10:33 AM
