Avroman

Yup, the laws are written by the powers that be for the powers that be to make sure to remain the powers that be. If you ever want to know why something happened follow the money and power trail, then you will find your answer.

Carl Spackler

Can anyone else decipher this guy's post? His communication skills are horrible.

Carl

chuck416

I have to agree w/ you on this one, Carl. It's a bit dis-jointed...

DAL 88 Driver

Is this a video of Mesabah explaining something else?

YouTube - Funniest Double Speak Ever

acl65pilot

Are you serious Carl;

I am saying take it back, National can do nothing and will never refuse to sign our PWA. Never!!

The unity portion is that when we do take it back and recapture flying we should do something for those ALPA Brothers and Sisters that will lose their jobs.

The point about these pilots being good enough for a Delta job is just that, a point. They currently fly our passengers and our families so there should be no issue with DALPA telling the company that since they are more than willing to let them fly those passengers at DCI there should be no issue with them flying those passenger here.

acl65pilot

My first point if I were Lee would be that job security in a contract business is a falacy. True security comes from flying for the pilot group with exclusivity with the company that creates the code. Lets start there. Everyone is a third part contractor and the security they have is measured by the ability to get these contracts.

I would then state that if you want true job security, security that will last longer than the 10 year term of your ASA, you as a pilot group and we as a national union need to find a way to return as much flying as possible to the majors. In the same breath my I would state that though our association and each MEC working together ALPA pilots from these carriers should be hired and or given those jobs.

By doing this your job security will last longer than a ASA contract, and over time your QOL would increase. There are ideas that would protect the senior RJ driver from the junior seniority QOL stealing jr major pilots, but first everyone would need to listen.

acl65pilot

You need to wrap your mind around what I am saying. It would be agreed to just like preferential interviews are. Heck, if done right it could be done with a two step integration. DCI integration of seniority of ALPA carriers and then a category status (which puts all RJ guys below you) on our list. The effect is they are not "hired"

Do not worry about a lawsuit. Worry about deciding to 1) Recapture the flying, and then 2) worry about what we will or will not do as a leader withing ALPA.


Many of the RJ guys will at first gnash their teeth but when they realize that the offer is better than the street they will sober up real quick. There is nothing to preclude us from doing any of this. We need the will and motivation to engage the company on this. DO we? Who knows. I know I am willing and motivated, and it has nothing to do with my current seniority. It has to do with repairing this industry and career. We want wages and benefits commensurate with our skill, well the first thing that needs to be done is to do more of our flying and second is to consolidate our power base. We have one in place, we just have moved it off the mainline lists over the last two decades. Time to bring it back, and doing something for your fellow ALPA pilots will result in a level of unity that you cannot imagine.

acl65pilot

Carl;
By fueling the divide we have gotten to where we are. If there is no benefit seen by these pilots they will do everything they can to undermine an independent union. Show a benefit though your national association and it solidifies unity.

Not doing anything for any of these pilots is one of the choices, and that may come to be the decision made, but the reality is that they are our ALPA brothers and sister and you are by default stating they are not worthy. That is a great selling point and is a crack in the facade that the ATA has and will continue to exploit.

alfaromeo

Well, they may have to change their interests or their careers. As others have said, this process will take time. When Delta and Northwest merged our contract reduced the amount of 70+ seat RJ's from the combined total of the two independent groups. ALPA signed it. ALPA is in the process of helping CAL/UAL try to negotiate an elimination of all outsourced flying, if there was a conflict, then why is ALPA doing this?

One of the main reasons that the Delta MEC worked to facilitate this merger was to broaden the network so that more mainline flying would be profitable and to lessen reliance on RJ's. Delta now has 200 less RJ's than DL/NW had before the merger. Here is an example that Hauenstein used in the DL investors conference:

DAB to ATL

August 2009 : 7 flights per day, average gauge 66 seats
September 2010 : 4 flights per day, average gauge 138 seats

This is exactly what we envisioned when we signed on to the merger. ALPA has no conflict between RJ's and mainline. They want pilots to all get paid more money. If we don't lift up the RJ carriers, then they will be a drag on us our entire careers. If we lift them up and draw them into mainline, we can eliminate outsourcing. ALPA wants this. Those jobs aren't going away, they should just become better jobs that work for mainline carriers.

acl65pilot

Exactly correct, and larger networks that profitably funnel passengers in to larger airplanes makes more sense.

This merger made the 744 viable and this merger will continue to lessen the desire for smaller lift.

Look across our system and see that our jets are full, and we are upgauging cities. That is a good thing.