DAL 88 Driver

Delta is going to want to hire the best people for the job. Delta is not going to agree to only hire pilots that fly for an ALPA Regional.

acl65pilot

That is a broad assumption and you are giving them lots of ammo. Fact is that we should take the stand that if they are good enough to fly my family and Delta passengers at DCI they are good enough to do it with a Delta number. That is the facts 88. Taking any other position undermines unity.


There was one contract ALPA refused to sign but it had nothing to do with taking flying back to a mainline. Fact is that we have at the local level done all of this and ratified it ourselves. Major airline pilots earn more. ALPA wants to keep it that way.

acl65pilot

Maybe...

Fact is that there are solutions to majors taking all the flying back and protecting the guys that want to stay at their same QOL on the jet they fly. It requires unity not divisive "me me" positions to get it done. Want to solve all of these other issues unity is the answer. It take work and humility on all sides but it can be done.

Columbia

Agreed. I am curious as to the possible discussions between ALPA and the regional MECs. What would LM say when visiting a regional MEC and asked, "As the ALPA President, how can you help us dues paying members at XXX regional ensure job security, grow, and stop the whip-sawing used to take jobs from us? The majors want to eliminate many of our jobs by taking our big jets. Please keep in mind that many don't want to start over somewhere else as we can't afford to or are not qualified (college degree, PIC time, dui, poor interviewer, etc)."

shiznit

Ok guys.....Time for a refresher.

I'm starting to see the ALPA RJ contradiction coming to rear its ugly head again.

One DC-9 crew earns roughly $21k/month in wages. This equates to $408 in dues, per DC-9 CREW, per month.

One CRJ-900 crew at ASA or Comair earns roughly $11k per month in wages. This equates to $213 in dues, per crew, per month.

***Above does not calculate for better reserve, work rules etc. which would make the disparity even larger once factored in.....


If this holds true, then how is ALPA "the money stealing entity" serving itself by "promoting" an agenda that LOWERS its own sources of revenue?


Many of you posting here view ALPA as "money machine, self-serving interest" that wants to line its own pockets" at the expense of its members. In the same vein, many of those same people state that they are sick and tired of their dues money going to subsidize RJ pilot groups, and that mainline pilots are only getting 20-30% of their money back from dues paid in. This says to me that RJ pilot groups COST money and do not MAKE money for ALPA, so financially it would be more beneficial to eliminate them, right?

WHICH IS IT???? Is ALPA out to make money? OR are they out to promote RJ jobs at the expense of mainline pilot members?

You can't have it both ways.

(Or, are the people who volunteer to help and run for offices to help make the union function truly committed to helping pilots and promoting and improving the profession? (Often with a deck of cards that is often stacked against them in DC.) I dunno, just asking....)

DAL 88 Driver

You are making an incorrect assumption. You think Delta is not going to hire any more pilots from non-ALPA backgrounds like the military and Sky West? First of all, I think that opens Delta up to the possibility of a lawsuit for discriminatory hiring practices. And more importantly, it means that Delta would have to pass on some very well qualified and highly desirable individuals. I'm not saying that many of the pilots at DCI ALPA carriers aren't good enough... and if an ALPA DCI pilot is the best candidate for the job, then we should hire that individual. I'm just saying that you cannot discriminate like that. It's not legal. This mania you seem to have about "unity" being the answer to everything seems to be turning into a fantasy world. I agree about the unity overall, but I think you're taking it to some illogical, impractical conclusions.

Carl Spackler

We've been through this dozens of times. ALPA national and their experts can and do put tremendous pressure on MEC's and negotiating committees to see things their way. I wish MEC's did not cave so often to the "experts" at national, but they do. Your blanket statements of local MEC's controlling everything and ALPA being the potted plant in the room waiting to be told where to sign is just flat wrong. You know it's wrong. Yet you still state the opposite. Troubling.

The problem is that you and others define unity poorly. You seem to define unity as best preserved by all pilots belonging to the same national union. That's where you lose me and others.

No...it is an ACTUAL conflict. ALPA national cannot properly represent the interests of both major pilots and regional pilots. No union can. Just that simple.

Carl

Carl Spackler

This is exactly correct and ALPA knows it. They are afraid that they will lose people to in-house unions if they split up. If they lose one more major, it will probably spell a very different future for ALPA. Thus, they would rather continue with this conflicted representation structure, keep everyone's dues, and tell you constantly that they're not conflicted.

Just remember that this type of conflict would never be allowed in a legal practice, or an agent/professional relationship.

Carl

Carl Spackler

And also, I don't want to see the regionals as the only place majors go for their pilots. I know acl65pilot and others would like it that way, but I think it would be an awful decision. We need to keep the pipline open for pilots from the many highly qualified military, corporate, and non-sched world. Regional pilots need to interview and compete with all these other pilots - not be given a preferential pipeline to a seniority number because of what regional they've worked for.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Totally wrong. It means no such thing. There are backgrounds among some regional pilots that make them unhireable at Delta. If they're good enough to fly your family at DCI, it only means they're good enough to APPLY to Delta Air Lines and compete like anybody else. No back door entries to Delta by hiring on with Brand X.

It's not a fact. It's just your opinion that you try to make fact...again. What you're proffering is not unity. It's just you trying to realize your dream of the regionals being the sole pipeline to the majors. It ain't going to happen dude. You trying to package this opinion as "unity" is laughable.

That is the facts acl. Taking any other position means you want to kill children and puppies.

Carl