Pineapple Guy

You keep saying this.

So what are AMR's rates and CAL's rates? We exceed them in most positions, yet they didn't go bankrupt.

Carl Spackler

Blindness is the continuation of belief despite clear facts to the contrary.

Carl

shiznit

...........

Carl Spackler

If you actually read any of these posts, you would know I've already done so. As I've said before, it appears to me that DPA will not get 51% in time. I believe it will be to all of our detriment, but it looks like the pilots will have spoken.

Read this a couple of times in the hope of improving your short term memory.

Carl

acl65pilot

DAL88,
Good point and I do expect that the MEC will listen to the "demands" of this pilot group. What you are saying or how I am reading your words is, you do not want to be told why to vote, "yes."

To me that is reasonable. I tell guys I fly with that an LEC Reps vote on the Master Council should be enough. They should then explain why they voted yes, and why they think it is the best deal we can get. Not why you should vote one way or another. It is a slight shift, but one that I do think needs to be taken. (See even I can speak out of school! )

If the education on the state of the industry, and all of the other items we have discussed is done effectively this is all that will be needed whenever the C2012 or other Contract TA's come to MEMRAT.

Carl Spackler

OK. Then I hope another letter comes very soon that describes what the MEC chairman thinks should be highlighted.

I believe the facts show that is incorrect. The reps seem to universally agree on the need to roll back Outsourcing. The reps get this from the represented. Interesting how you could spin this as him lying if he had listed Scope.

Carl

acl65pilot

Carl;
If DPA does fail, I would like to see these ALPA members redouble their efforts to effect the change they want, or at a minimum get involved in some level of the union process.

Carl Spackler

I don't know about DAL88, but that's not how I'm reading his words. I'm reading it as: "the pilots shall educate the MEC as to what they will require in the next contract." That way, there will be no surprises in the TA, because the pilots will have been the ones to educate the MEC.

Carl

acl65pilot

Carl;
The debate of scope has many sides. Many say take back the flying, some say do not sell the 76+ seat market, and some say these jets are place holders for larger small jets.

If you take all of these positions and stop for a second you can start to see something. All of them have a want. They want more flying to be ours. I also see a few facts.
1) The current RJ's are last gen, and will not be around in ten years due to inefficency and size
2) They are in fact place holders for a next gen jet that gives us the CASM desired for mainline operations
3) With these new jets being designed and in some cases manufactured, it makes sense to hold the line with the commitments you and I describe and allow attrition of the Last Gen Technology jets take old. Hold the proverbial 76 seat line, take back the flying with a commitment of no new contracts, and over time as the next gen jets show up on our list without any cost allocated to the recapture. (Our side or theirs)

Refusing to budge on any more small jet scope sales will in effect cause DCI to shrink and possible disappear as these contracts expire. The smart unionist realizes that DAL will still need the network feed to feed the route system, and will find and offer a plan to management that benefits us the pilots on the Delta list as well as the company. That does not mean a scope sale or give back, it means a plan that benefits us with a larger list and more options, and a structure that allows Delta the agility to have a route network that can compete with the competition.

Taking the 76 seat and below flying back is very important for unity of our product and trade. From all of the options I have listened to the idea of getting a commitment for no new contracts, and letting existing contracts expire much like UALALPA is doing is the way to go. It allows the company to complete its financial commitments to the ASA providers, and over time brings the flying, not a specific aircraft size back in to the mainline mix. The two things that need to be done are the commitment from the company and not allowing more than 76 seats at DCI. The issue takes care of itself with no cost to the pilot group.

Splash

Sounds like religion.