Delta Pilots Association
12-30-2010, 11:32 AM
#3791
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
To the true ALPA by-law guru's: Why does the ALPA National president have to sign all collective bargaining agreements in order for them to be put in effect? Does that mean that it is a true national union or not? Or is it to confirm that the CBA complies with the C&BL of the Association?
***ALPA and other airline workers' unions had a MAJOR FAILURE when they didn't lobby/force Congress to place airline unions under the NLRA when the Airline De-Regulation Act passed in 1978.....Bad move and hurt ALL of our careers some 32 years ago.
12-30-2010, 02:10 PM
#3792
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
OK.
OK Einstein...here is my post again for your review:
Where in my post did I say all? Do you not see the word "most"?? I asked you to pay attention...and this is how you show me?!?
You have a firm grasp on the obvious. When I say that most ALPA services are already outsourced, oursourcing means paying for the service. And by the way, there is no "d" in privilege.
Oh geeez...another one? Call David Bates (Chairman of the APA). Repeat your claim that ALPA is throwing APA a "lifeline" and see what he tells you. Instead of restating the silly claims of others, go to the source and ask him what the agreement between APA and ALPA actually is.
Where in my post did I say, or even infer that?
Carl
OK Einstein...here is my post again for your review:
Where in my post did I say, or even infer that?
Carl
12-30-2010, 02:17 PM
#3794
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Nobody is doing that. The flying sold by the majors to grow the regionals was certainly not throwing the regionals under the bus. And the regionals didn't throw us under the bus because we were the ones that sold the flying. You might want to contemplate a new and more appropriate metaphor.
A true trade unionist pays their own way. A true trade unionist doesn't use the dues money of another union to represent them.
Carl
Carl
12-30-2010, 08:00 PM
#3795
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: No to large RJs
Posts: 369
Posted by Check essential
Rumor type stuff:
Talked to a kid at 31 Flavors whose Dad knows a guy that had a long layover conversation with one of our illustrious leaders.
Interesting to say the least.
This union guy doesn't think we will make it to the amendable date without some significant contract modifications. The incoming MEC administration has been very serious about going into "listening mode" and they will only intensify that effort in coming months. What they have heard so far though is pretty much unmistakable. The pilot group remains incredibly motivated and has been quietly carrying an enormous load the last couple years with pretty much no complaining. We have bought into "constructive engagement" while the corporate boys rebuild their finances. But we also expect that all this sacrifice will pay off reasonably quickly now that profitability has been restored. Mention the future and its like a "seething cauldron" with the level of frustration increasing daily. No progress toward contract restoration until 2013 or later is a recipe for a disaster in pilot morale. A major catalyst for that attitude -- the notion that a ValuJet 717 driver is going to be making more than our 777 captains is an embarassment that is really hitting home with even some of the die-hard old-time Widget lovers in Peachtree City.
This "official" doesn't think management will let that toxic brew of resentment build up unabated for another two or three years. Mgmt knows the pilot group has contributed mightily to the recovery of this corporation but bad stuff will inevitably start to happen to the operational statistics if the pilots were to, let's just say, suffer a serious loss of enthusiasm. No illegal concerted activity, just 12,000 p***ed off people turning the wheels instead of 12,000 motivated people.
He thinks early talks are a virtual certainty. The big question according to this guy is whether management will seek to move the amendable date in these early talks. They could address the short-term issues with small bites of the apple just big enough to keep the lid on things until Section 6 plays out or they could open up more of the book and do some bigger things but then of course ask for an extension of the amendable date.
DALPA is preparing for either eventuality but they will be very reluctant to move the amendable date without extensive opportunity for feedback, thorough debate, roadshows, all that.
Rumor type stuff:
Talked to a kid at 31 Flavors whose Dad knows a guy that had a long layover conversation with one of our illustrious leaders.
Interesting to say the least.
This union guy doesn't think we will make it to the amendable date without some significant contract modifications. The incoming MEC administration has been very serious about going into "listening mode" and they will only intensify that effort in coming months. What they have heard so far though is pretty much unmistakable. The pilot group remains incredibly motivated and has been quietly carrying an enormous load the last couple years with pretty much no complaining. We have bought into "constructive engagement" while the corporate boys rebuild their finances. But we also expect that all this sacrifice will pay off reasonably quickly now that profitability has been restored. Mention the future and its like a "seething cauldron" with the level of frustration increasing daily. No progress toward contract restoration until 2013 or later is a recipe for a disaster in pilot morale. A major catalyst for that attitude -- the notion that a ValuJet 717 driver is going to be making more than our 777 captains is an embarassment that is really hitting home with even some of the die-hard old-time Widget lovers in Peachtree City.
This "official" doesn't think management will let that toxic brew of resentment build up unabated for another two or three years. Mgmt knows the pilot group has contributed mightily to the recovery of this corporation but bad stuff will inevitably start to happen to the operational statistics if the pilots were to, let's just say, suffer a serious loss of enthusiasm. No illegal concerted activity, just 12,000 p***ed off people turning the wheels instead of 12,000 motivated people.
He thinks early talks are a virtual certainty. The big question according to this guy is whether management will seek to move the amendable date in these early talks. They could address the short-term issues with small bites of the apple just big enough to keep the lid on things until Section 6 plays out or they could open up more of the book and do some bigger things but then of course ask for an extension of the amendable date.
DALPA is preparing for either eventuality but they will be very reluctant to move the amendable date without extensive opportunity for feedback, thorough debate, roadshows, all that.
Here's to a safe, happy and PROSPEROUS New Year to all of us!
Dawgs
12-30-2010, 08:59 PM
#3796
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: B-7ER JFK
Posts: 931
If this turns out to be true, I personally believe the DPA movement has much to do with it. I have always believed management and ALPA have had a very cozy relationship and DPA represents a major threat and unknown to that arrangement. The DPA movement has shown management that thousands of us are very unhappy with our current lot. I think they know it would be in their best interest to give ALPA a quick victory in order to preserve and protect their preferred pilot union. I know if I was on that side of the table, I would do what I could to keep ALPA.
Dawgs
Dawgs
12-30-2010, 09:17 PM
#3797
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
Man, how did ALPA win the grievance? I thought that ALPA National's RJ agenda would have had the attorneys settle this for an LOA that allowed the flights.
How can ALPA stand by and let a major hold a line on scope? Don't they know that they are supposed to be promoting RJ's?
The supposed "ALPA sponsored" RJ agenda seems to be dying? How can that be?
All TIC. Good on ALPA for structuring the scope wording to win the grievance. Hope that part of their scope clause makes it through to the JCBA.
How come APA hasn't won a scope grievance in a while?
How can ALPA stand by and let a major hold a line on scope? Don't they know that they are supposed to be promoting RJ's?
The supposed "ALPA sponsored" RJ agenda seems to be dying? How can that be?
All TIC. Good on ALPA for structuring the scope wording to win the grievance. Hope that part of their scope clause makes it through to the JCBA.
How come APA hasn't won a scope grievance in a while?
12-31-2010, 04:57 AM
#3798
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Maybe this is a sign of things to come. ALPA locals making national irrelevant if national doesn't tow the local's line.
Carl
12-31-2010, 08:08 AM
#3800
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Dismayed
Posts: 1,598
Guys, sorry for the thread hijack, but for a while I've been complaining about the lack of info from DALPA. Well, in Dec I transferred to LEC 1 and have been absolutely inundated (relatively speaking) with newsletters and information. Perhaps, the problem was my previous councils (108 and 66). I'm also pleased to see the new MEC letters (touch and goes). Maybe they are getting the message after all.
Back to the usual bickering.
Back to the usual bickering.
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