Delta Pilots Association
12-20-2010, 12:49 PM
#3621
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
You were always famous for just shutting up and disappearing for a while when someone proved you wrong, so I'm guessing Karnak is your latest mentoring project.
Peripheral issues. That's beautiful!
Carl
12-20-2010, 12:50 PM
#3622
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 852
If his actions/comments/decisions as a labor leader are fair game for discussion here, then I suppose Tim's are too?
12-20-2010, 03:02 PM
#3623
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Section 1.A defines who the bargaining agent is. it's unambiguous. What is a little ambiguous is the way the NMB views company actions during an organizing drive, or an election. Delta has earned re-voting for their actions during union elections. But this is not a union election. it's an organizing drive.
Section 24.P grants ALPA specific access. Past practice is a blurry concept in labor law, since even the NMB has reversed itself at least twice in the past few years on the voting requirements. Delta must comply with the RLA and LMDRA, which recognize the authorized bargaining agent's status. DPA has no special status under RLA or LMDRA, so Delta doesn't have to give them access. The interim president of the DPA has written a complaint letter about being kicked out of the DTW pilot lounge area. It's a complaint, not an injunction.
newK listed a few cases that matter for factory workers. They are not applicable to us. We aren't governed by the NLRB. We fall under the NMB because we are governed by the RLA. We have special tax provisions, work rules (duty time), medical standards, and union rules (eg - contracts that never "expire").
Section 24.P grants ALPA specific access. Past practice is a blurry concept in labor law, since even the NMB has reversed itself at least twice in the past few years on the voting requirements. Delta must comply with the RLA and LMDRA, which recognize the authorized bargaining agent's status. DPA has no special status under RLA or LMDRA, so Delta doesn't have to give them access. The interim president of the DPA has written a complaint letter about being kicked out of the DTW pilot lounge area. It's a complaint, not an injunction.
newK listed a few cases that matter for factory workers. They are not applicable to us. We aren't governed by the NLRB. We fall under the NMB because we are governed by the RLA. We have special tax provisions, work rules (duty time), medical standards, and union rules (eg - contracts that never "expire").
RLA § 156. Procedure in changing rates of pay, rules, and working conditions
Carriers and representatives of the employees shall give at least thirty days' written notice of an intended change in agreements affecting rates of pay, rules, or working conditions, and the time and place for the beginning of conference between the representatives of the parties interested in such intended changes shall be agreed upon within ten days after the receipt of said notice, and said time shall be within the thirty days provided in the notice.
Carriers and representatives of the employees shall give at least thirty days' written notice of an intended change in agreements affecting rates of pay, rules, or working conditions, and the time and place for the beginning of conference between the representatives of the parties interested in such intended changes shall be agreed upon within ten days after the receipt of said notice, and said time shall be within the thirty days provided in the notice.
RLA Mandatory Bargaining Requirement Case
Virginia Ry. v. System Fed'n No. 40, 300 U.S. 515, 548 (1937)
RLA Video Surveillance Cases
Pinnacle Airlines Corp., 29 NMB 398 (2002)
Aeromexico, 28 NMB 309 (2001)
12-20-2010, 03:21 PM
#3625
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
You can discuss the Pope for all I care dude... as far as I am concerned from this moment forward, you are nothing more than some angry, vitriolic alpa LOVER with an agenda... you have presented NOTHING other than hatred and fear.. All you are doing is weakening your case. I am getting closer and closer to sending in a card just to **** you off... (and to get the debate out in the open) but get this... /ignore. Done. Have a Merry Christmas
12-20-2010, 03:22 PM
#3626
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Seriously dude? Peripheral issues? This Karnak fellow is obviously the latest dupe that is being fed wrong information to put out there as a scare tactic against DPA. His opinions that he tried to portray as fact are proveably wrong...yet they're "peripheral" to you?
You were always famous for just shutting up and disappearing for a while when someone proved you wrong, so I'm guessing Karnak is your latest mentoring project.
Peripheral issues. That's beautiful!
Carl
You were always famous for just shutting up and disappearing for a while when someone proved you wrong, so I'm guessing Karnak is your latest mentoring project.
Peripheral issues. That's beautiful!
Carl
12-20-2010, 03:24 PM
#3627
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
The retarded nature of this statement shows precisely how little grasp you have on the issues that are driving pilots away from alpa national. Good luck with your message.
12-20-2010, 03:34 PM
#3628
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Wow busy day.
I do know that a few guys are working on the DPA by laws, but they do not seem to be complying with their outline. If that is the case change it because it is making them have instant credibility issues.
I do know that a few guys are working on the DPA by laws, but they do not seem to be complying with their outline. If that is the case change it because it is making them have instant credibility issues.
12-20-2010, 03:38 PM
#3629
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
Let's stick to the subject. I think you have too many discussions going on at once. This is your post that I responded to.....
You don't have to be an attorney to understand the last two words in your post.
It's Delta's property. If you want to distribute flyers or hang posters for Pilots For Kids, you have to get Delta's permission. It's their property. You are an employee, and have to abide by their rules. Those rules are in the FOM, and in the case of pilot organizing, in the PWA.
If you own property, you can prevent the Westboro Baptist Church from planting yard signs on your lawn.
Your property...your rules.
See? I just saved you from having to pay more to AMFA's lawyers to explain that.
You're welcome, brother!
It's Delta's property. If you want to distribute flyers or hang posters for Pilots For Kids, you have to get Delta's permission. It's their property. You are an employee, and have to abide by their rules. Those rules are in the FOM, and in the case of pilot organizing, in the PWA.
If you own property, you can prevent the Westboro Baptist Church from planting yard signs on your lawn.
Your property...your rules.
See? I just saved you from having to pay more to AMFA's lawyers to explain that.
You're welcome, brother!
That's where I'll stop, because that's all I was saying.
Everything else you are trying to find out is in the surveillance cases though. You might find them interesting.
New K Now
12-20-2010, 03:53 PM
#3630
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 852
...only taller, smarter, and more charming.
That seems to be the common theme here. It appears to offend you that I ask questions and poke at DPA and not ALPA.
More than having you ignore the questions and issues I raised? Really?
Riiiiiight...
You too. Fly safe. Look out for each other.
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