tsquare

Yeah good luck with THAT response... he is gnashing at a PhD level... Ron Mullis is probably impressed.

Karnak

Both. They are not legally obligated to give access to the DPA or its representatives. DPA has no status with Delta. They are legally obligated to grant access to ALPA and its representatives. There's a legal difference. I think that's why ALPA put it in the contract.

Legally, Delta doesn't have to accommodate pilots soliciting anything. Even ALPA reps can't inflate their ALPA-owned rat on Delta property...and ALPA is the authorized bargaining agent! We can obtain permits to picket, leaflet, and inflate rats on other property near Delta's, but Delta can block it on their property. They can let Pilots For Kids hang posters, but refuse Pilots For Hookers. When PFAA raided the Teamsters at Northwest, they were successfully banned from placing posters or setting up tables on Northwest property.

My opinion is that Delta would hear from ALPA if they allowed DPA to set up a table in the pilot lounge so that DPA could hold a bake sale to pay for their non-disclosed legal counsel. It's also my opinion that Delta doesn't want to anger the pilot group just prior to entering negotiations, even though they see opportunity in a divided pilot group.

Reroute

Barely breathing!

YGTBSM, DPA was spawned 8 months ago, they pretend to be able to represent 12,000 professional Delta pilots in as little as 5 months and enter into section 6 negotiations shortly thereafter. To date, after 8 months, all they have is a webboard. No Constitution and By-Laws, no committee structure, no financial statements, no contracts to retain aeromedical services, professional negotiators, pilot representation, no transparency whatsoever. They haven't even had an organizing meeting in Atlanta, or any other Delta pilot base as near as I can tell. What's so hard about renting a room and inviting pilots to attend a meeting?

If they can't even do the simplest thing, like have a meeting, do you trust them to be able to actually represent the Delta pilots on day 1, which they claim can be as early as May? What a joke.

Karnak

Then ignore the criticism and stick to your own statement - that you would hold DPA just as accountable as ALPA.

My personal fear is that YOU aren't doing what you said you would do...demanding accountability. (We're using the "y'all" context here, right?) I'm concerned that pilots will over-simplify the solution to ALPA's problems, and choose Anything Other Than ALPA, without seeing the problem with the first word.

Now we're getting somewhere! Show me where DPA fits, anywhere. To do that, you will have to figure out how big they'll be and who they are using to steer and advise them. Are there any conflicts of interest there? If there are, I think that would be "bad". You might not. It might be right in your comfort zone having their lawyers paid 3 times what ALPA lawyers are paid. Tell me who their lawyers are, and how much they're going to be paid, and I'll rule on MY comfort zone. Is that too much to ask?

Got it. A single issue is all YOU need. DPA could pay Kevin McCormick $800,000 a year, like AMFA/PFAA did, and you'd be ok with that?

The "layers" at ALPA are right there for you to see. You KNOW how much the President of ALPA makes. You know well enough to be pi$$ed about it, yet you can't tell me how much DPA's President or current advisors and managers are/will be paid...and you don't fear that?

ALPA has some things that clearly need fixing. I read discussions about them right here. I'm ready for some discussions about the things that need fixing with DPA. Are you in?

NWA320pilot

But that is not what you were stating earlier...... Maybe you can review the the quotes and re-post, or maybe not.

NWA320pilot

You made a similar statement before but then ran away......

DAL 88 Driver

As much as I hate to agree with you, I think that is all valid criticism. But what I do not want to see going forward more than anything else, is a continuation of DALPA's total lack of a clear objective. Many of us think that objective should be restoration of the standard of living we expected our careers to have when we got into this in the first place. DALPA acts as if we just have to live with the dramatically lower standard of living and be happy with whatever meager gains we can get as they fall into our collective lap. There's no sense of urgency or even any real acknowledgement of our situation and what it would take to correct it. Absent that, I'm willing to take my chances on a relative unknown like DPA that at least acknowledges the problem and seems to want to correct it. But, if DPA doesn't address most of the criticism you state above (and do it soon), I doubt it's ever going to get off the ground. Maybe at the very least this whole thing will serve the purpose of providing a much needed wakeup call for DALPA. One can always hope!

Karnak

Quibble at will...

...or address the issue.

Your call.

slowplay

Ahh, focusing on the minutiae. Nice.

Carl Spackler

That's quite some back pedaling there dude. You started out with the complete BS statement that Delta would be in VIOLATION of Section 1 if they had allowed DPA on the property to campaign. Now even you know this was your latest example of stating pure BS.

The next example was your parroting the claim of others that DPA is management's wet dream. But as even you must know by now, people don't generally prohibit their wet dreams.

Don't know if DPA will ultimately be successful or not, but you are not helping ALPA's cause by spouting things that are so proveably wrong.

Carl