Delta Pilots Association
12-07-2010, 10:11 PM
#3391
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,913
The problem is that they are attempting to cure the symptoms, not the disease.
They are "playing the game". And DAL pilots are tired of the game.
The pilots DON'T CARE if it's ALPA that solves their problems, any more than the travelling public cares if it's UAL or SWA that gets them home for Christmas. Who ever does the job with the least drama wins.
The powers that be need to start "interviewing for their own job", putting their "what ALPA can do for you" campaign together, and they'd better start listening to the outlying opinions rather than from the same yes men handlers.
If they take the low road, and start rolling around in the mud, then that only works in the other side's favor. Nobody is going to ring ALPA's bell just because it's ALPA...not anymore. This time around, it will be the people who put forth the clearest, most logical set of objectives.
Nu
PS NOT a DPA supporter, but this is going to be a slow motion train wreck if we go down the same path.
12-07-2010, 10:18 PM
#3392
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,049
I understand your frustration, but hey, give them some credit for what they've done. None of our peer airlines have done any better. In fact, they've done a lot worse.
12-07-2010, 10:40 PM
#3393
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I wish so many people weren't stuck on C2K. Our contract needs way more then better pay rates to improve. C2K rates plus 30% alone does jack squat for our contract. How about reserve rules, reserve rigs vs. lineholder rigs, trip drop when it touches vacation, a complete re-write of 23G & 23K, & higher defined contributions just to name a few.
C2K payrates are meaningless by themselves.
C2K payrates are meaningless by themselves.
The next item I'd like to study is the 14% DC.
Carl
12-07-2010, 10:43 PM
#3394
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
12-07-2010, 10:47 PM
#3395
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Does DALPA even want to know the member's opinions on what our next contract should contain? Or have they already decided that?
Carl
12-07-2010, 10:55 PM
#3396
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Maybe some of the Delta guys that were actually here in 2001 can corroborate this. At NWA, our 98 contract's pay rates were along with improvement in all areas of the contract. I'm betting that the DAL 2001 contract was the same, but I don't know that since I wasn't here. Is Satchip right? Was the $319 peak pay rate gained because you agreed to work rule reductions in all other areas?
Carl
Carl
12-07-2010, 10:59 PM
#3397
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl
12-07-2010, 11:02 PM
#3398
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I dont think I need to defend Carl or his generation, but I do need to clarify that the outsourcing of DAL was done by the union and sold to the pilot group. Most pilots vote the way the union tells them to vote.
In retrospect, we didnt even "sell" the outsourcing, we paid the company to take it.
In retrospect, we didnt even "sell" the outsourcing, we paid the company to take it.
Carl
12-08-2010, 04:32 AM
#3399
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
Screwing over your employees is not a smart business strategy. And it will likely have a negative effect on "return for shareholders" in the long run. I guess it depends on whether you (not you, satchip... management) are in it for long term success, or just in it to make a quick buck and a name for yourself and then leave the company to struggle with your bad long term management decisions. While that might make a quarterly report or two look good, it is ultimately fiduciary irresponsibility in my view. Like I said, I see some things I like about our current management team. But when they sit back and let us continue under bankruptcy conditions long after the bankruptcy is over, they are missing a huge opportunity to really cultivate a great asset. The only way they are getting away with it right now is because we are letting them. I guess that's good for their bonuses and resumes, but it sucks for us pilots, and I can't for the life of me understand why DALPA would allow this to happen completely uncontested. That is by far the biggest reason I think a change may be needed in our representation.
Like Bar said, DALPA has secured mid contract improvements whenever they had the chance. There is no legal mechanism to do otherwise. Besides, without a complete polling of the membership, the union cannot go after a major change like that and pretend to represent everybody. Personally, I think the pay is fine. I'm more worried about job security, ie scope.
12-08-2010, 05:18 AM
#3400
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Seriously, what would you have them do? First of all, I don't think that the company is missing anything. Every other employee group has voted down union representation. I think that is a pretty good indicator of job satisfaction and good relations. We have a contract that provides for raises and increases in DC until the amenable date. RA knows he is going to have to open the checkbook in a couple of years, but why in the world would he(the board, management, whomever you want to include) do that before then?
Like Bar said, DALPA has secured mid contract improvements whenever they had the chance. There is no legal mechanism to do otherwise. Besides, without a complete polling of the membership, the union cannot go after a major change like that and pretend to represent everybody. Personally, I think the pay is fine. I'm more worried about job security, ie scope.
Like Bar said, DALPA has secured mid contract improvements whenever they had the chance. There is no legal mechanism to do otherwise. Besides, without a complete polling of the membership, the union cannot go after a major change like that and pretend to represent everybody. Personally, I think the pay is fine. I'm more worried about job security, ie scope.
The union does need to poll the pilots, and I beleive they will. This does not preclude the company from sending DALPA an offer, and if good enough it is the responsibility of your union to look at it.
I will disagree, pay is no where near good enough. Not for ones without a military retirement. I do agree that Scope is what holds the contract together, and needs to be improved.
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